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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      What work do you suppose it is that quaila do? Why do representations have to feel like anything? Don’t the mechanisms do all the work? That is the hard problem.

      4 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Clarity‏ @SurviveThrive2 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Hutcheson @Plinz @djswagerman

      Qualia is necessary for systems with multi sensory input feeding into an undefined neuron space of the cortex. Neurochemical processes initiated when behavior drivers are satisfied is the primary mechanism to link and manage neuron patterns for adaptation and optimization.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SurviveThrive2 @Plinz @djswagerman

      Neurons and neurochemical processes are in physical reality. Qualia are in the simulation, not physical reality. We can’t call on them to do physical work.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      Qualia are part of our model of the physical work that is being done.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      So the hand moves from the flame because of 1) nerve impulses (physical) and 2) pain (qualia). But if we are saying this, we can’t say qualia are instantiated by physical processes, no?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Hutcheson @Plinz and

      We are saying there is relationship of identity not causality. The nerve impulses don’t cause the pain, the nerve impulses just are the pain.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      Do you also think that wheels are identical to electromagnetic forces translating angular momentum between rubber molecules and metal atoms?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      If you’re suggesting that qualia and neurophysiology are merely different levels of description, I disagree.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      No, I just think that identity theory is confused, for a number of reasons.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      So you might say the mind is ontologically distinct from the brain implementing it? (Or is it conceptually distinct?)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 25 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

      In the way I use the terms, the brain is the biological hardware that implements the mind, the mind is the set of computational principles that generates models of universe and self, in the service of deliberating control, the self is the mind's model of its deliberate control.

      2:51 PM - 25 Nov 2019
      • 3 Likes
      • Dirk-Jan Swagerman Dustin Hutcheson
      4 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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        2. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 26 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

          How will one determine if the simulation (artificial mind) being implemented on non-biological hardware has instantiated phenomenal qualities? Even for humans we must rely on self reports. How will we ever know for machines?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 26 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

          If you understand the precise referent of phenomenal experience, you can create an experiencing observer: a mind that hears its own voice and recognizes it as its own. Until then you can only recognize sentient behavior, like you do in cats.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Dirk-Jan Swagerman‏ @djswagerman 25 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2

          In your terminology, do you discriminate between “self” as the “stream of phenomology” and the model of “self” accessible in memory, appearing and disappearing in this phenomenology?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 25 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @djswagerman @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2

          Yes, you can have phenomenal experience without a self.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 3 more replies
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        2. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 26 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

          Can we say that in the physical frame phenomenal consciousness is information, but within the simulation information is phenomenal consciousness?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 26 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Hutcheson @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

          There is no consciousness in the physical frame. Most information in the mental frame is not phenomenal.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        4. 2 more replies
        1. Dustin Hutcheson‏ @Hutcheson 25 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 @djswagerman

          I thinks it’s wonderful that someone in your position is interested in the nature of consciousness. One can see how there is much honest confusion in phil of mind. I think approaching the HP using comp sci theory and terminology with an awareness of philosophy will be fruitful!

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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