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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 22 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @chrisfcarroll and

      Exploring flashes of intuition can be helpful. And I doubt I hit the mark on this one, I agree. But you presented me with a fresh idea, which doesn’t happen every day. I’ve not considered this concept of consciousness as a simulation. It’s an exciting idea. Ty

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 22 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @chrisfcarroll and

      What is your goal? If you want to solve an existential issue, understanding consciousness probably won't help. If you want to solve consciousness, thinking in any other than a rigorous way won't help. Why are you doing this?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 22 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @chrisfcarroll and

      Theoretical physics is a separate specialty from experimental physics. Theoreticians create models (hopefully containing testable hypothesis), and applied physics designs protocols to disprove those hypothesis. This arrangement has worked well, don’t you agree?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 22 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @Plinz and

      My goal? To separate what is empirically valid from what is metaphysically derivative. To arrange the empirically valid models in a hierarchy of validity (a very complicated process) in an attempt to advance our understanding of consciousness.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 22 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @Plinz and

      The ultimate goal is to develops a model which allows us to measure and quantify consciousness and thus allows us to empirically define consciousness.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Clarity‏ @SurviveThrive2 23 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @Plinz and

      It’s already measurable. Consciousness is cognition to analyze and respond to acquire resources and avoid threats. Know the sensory patterns, the environment models, the affective emotions, and learned and impulsive responses and you can predict processing and likely behavior.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 23 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SurviveThrive2 @Plinz and

      These are verbal solutions unconnected to useful neuroscience evidence. We can’t measure and quantify a concept, even if the concept is 100% correct. And there’s no way to determine if a verbal solution is correct without a testable hypothesis.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Clarity‏ @SurviveThrive2 23 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @Plinz and

      A robot in the middle of the night has a low water level and goes down the hall to the kitchen to get a drink of water. It drinks until satisfied. Same sensing, processing, responses as a person for the same reason. Conscious? Yes. Just on a lower level than a person.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 23 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SurviveThrive2 @SimsYStuart and

      I can see a robot with “slightly similar sensing & response as a person” but not “same processing“ or “same reason” Water spills to the floor in games with physics engines for&by /utterly/ different reasons & processes as real water. There is no ”gravity, just on a lower level”

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Clarity‏ @SurviveThrive2 23 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @SimsYStuart and

      Granted it would be digital not biological. But the functional processing would be the same. A behavior driver stimulating models of self and the environment and the behaviors to satisfy the driver, which is functionally the same process as a person. The reason is 'thirst'.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 23 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SurviveThrive2 @chrisfcarroll and

      Simulated wetness is real to a simulated person. It even turns out that there is no wetness in the physical universe.

      1:45 PM - 23 Nov 2019
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        2. Clarity‏ @SurviveThrive2 23 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @chrisfcarroll and

          And wetness is only a sensed quality because of brain patterns that were interconnected as self survival motivating drivers linked relevant environment models to give context and survive/thrive meaning to touching something wet.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 23 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @SurviveThrive2 @Plinz and

          Drifting away from the subject of consciousness but … this an evolutionary Just So Story? Is there value in believing it?

          3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 23 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @SurviveThrive2 and

          No. We might one day write an algorithm to generate a structure that we hope is nearly isomorphic to "a person experiences wetness" X is isomorphic to Y is a long away from X is Y. (And, we are not yet close to that maybe-hopefully-nearly an isomorphism?)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 23 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @chrisfcarroll @Plinz and

          I might have written that wrong. Possibly it should have read: (X is isomorphic to Y) AND (Y is real) DoesNotImply=> X is real AlsoDoesNotImply=>X is anything like Y whether for gravity or consciousness. (tho I'm still thinking about yr point that few ppl undersand gravity)

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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