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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Nov 2019
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      If your theory of consciousness contains a Hard Problem, it means that you recognize that your theory does not work.

      11 replies 5 retweets 53 likes
    2. NeuroMyths‏ @NeuroMyths 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      No, this is like saying "if your theory of QM has a measurement problem, it means you recognize that your theory doesn't work." No one's theory works, that's why it's a problem!

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @NeuroMyths

      If no one's theory [in any given domain] works, it means that no one has a working theory, no?

      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
    4. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @NeuroMyths

      The “hard problem” is only a problem for those who fail to place organismic affect (homeostatic, emotional affect) at the foundation of their model. Once you conceptualize subjective experiences as an emergent characteristic of affect, the hard problem vanishes completely.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @Plinz @NeuroMyths

      To be replaced by the problem of claiming that a "conceptualisation of subjective experiences as an emergent characteristic of affect" bears any connection to what our actual subjective experiences actually are.

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @SimsYStuart and

      more generally, having a Hard Problem is rather better than not noticing that you have a Problem.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Stuart Sims‏ @SimsYStuart 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @Plinz @NeuroMyths

      Now mapping the precise causal mechanisms (neurochemical and neuroarchitectural) which elaborate brainstem affect into cortical subjective experience is certainly a very, very hard problem. But that problem is not a conceptual problem. It’s just a problem of system complexity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @SimsYStuart @Plinz @NeuroMyths

      The conceptual problem that I see, is mapping a '3rd person' description of a brain to 1st person subjective experience. There is no such mapping?

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @SimsYStuart @NeuroMyths

      I don’t think that the functional implementation of the mind and the conscious self exist in the same frame of reference. From the perspective of the self, phenomenal experience is primary, outside of it, there is no experience. The self is a story, the mind a story generator.

      3 replies 1 retweet 11 likes
    10. Chris F Carroll‏ @chrisfcarroll 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @SimsYStuart @NeuroMyths

      Is “self is a story, mind a story generator” a description of the self from the functional (can I say 3rd person?) frame? Or does it aim to bridge gap between the frames? Is 'story' a special smthg that seems to make sense in both frames of reference no translation needed?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @chrisfcarroll @SimsYStuart @NeuroMyths

      The story generator description exists within the mind as well and is not part of the ground truth, but it is a mathematical concept that does not require experience, and can be functionally realized. The experienced self is not real.

      4:09 PM - 14 Nov 2019
      • 2 Likes
      • Matt Guttman Chris F Carroll
      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. human evolution‏ @davidarredondo 15 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @chrisfcarroll and

          Correct. However there are *experiences* (ways of ongoing perceptions) beyond concepts, constructs, words, models and thus communication. Kinda sucks for science but it is what it is. Truth decides, not man (in his commonly construed form). "Hard Problem" = facing wrong direction

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Matt Guttman‏ @RealtimeAI 21 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @davidarredondo @Plinz and

          Does this mean that epistemic substrate-independence due to computational universality is false?

          2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 14 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Jakob Berg‏ @Jakob__B 21 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @chrisfcarroll and

          Does a shadow have “less existence” than the source from which it is cast? If not, then why is the self not real? And, moreover, how can a story be generated if its existence is not implied by the ground truth and hence a facet of the ground truth? Does possibility = existence?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Jakob Berg‏ @Jakob__B 21 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @Jakob__B @Plinz and

          pic.twitter.com/fEhLnqpnF8

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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