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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      Again, no. The octagon requires establishing shapes over gestalts over edges over adjacency relations. Each layer has to be constructed in a learning process and is not immediately given.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    2. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      The gestalts have to be presented first before anything can be learned about them. The gestalt is visible and it need not represent anything at all.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      From the perspective of your brain, the patterns on the retina are not even ordered before it learns cooccurrence statistics. After learning a lot of those, it can get a 2d map, but not a gestalt yet. Try and code it, you'll see.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      Gestalts are formed in the mind as a way of compressing the patterns (i.e. we discover exactly those gestalts that best encode the patterns, at the level between edge and shape).

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      There is no justification for a data compression schema to be rendered as visible. Brain activity can be res'd down in another part of the brain, but that activity is the data. No sights or models are generated, it's just chemistry repeating.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      Vision _is_ the set of functions representing the data compression (as textured objects in a space of positions). It does not exist in addition to that, or independently of it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    7. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      It can't be, because you can have the exact same data compression in a computer without any graphic output or isomorphic geometry in the circuits. There's no triangle in the computer hardware, only in our experience of a screen.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      The arrangement of the computer hardware in your mind's model of physical space is not directly relevant for the function it computes. Experience emerges over models (which are computed functions), not over the substrate.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Abel.TM‏ @Abel_TorresM 13 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @S33light

      I dispute that view. Computation in the brain results in subjective experience and behavior (including problem solving). Can we ignore the substrate achieving the same result? That presupposes either replicating exactly the same computation (i.e. brain's structural complexity) 1/

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Abel.TM‏ @Abel_TorresM 13 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Abel_TorresM @Plinz @S33light

      Or just doing a subset of the computation knowing which parts are superfluous for achieving the same experience and capabilities. The reductionism of the brain functioning related to subjective experience to the high level information processing is oversimplified and unfounded 2/

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 13 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Abel_TorresM @S33light

      Could you turn this statement into an argument? Why do you think functionalism is wrong?

      6:40 AM - 13 Aug 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. Abel.TM‏ @Abel_TorresM 13 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @S33light

          My statement contains the argument: we are conscious and we use the full functional complexity of the brain. Assuming that only a subset of those dynamics, which we selected in an oversimplified model, would have consciousness is the statement lacking argument (is just an idea)

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Abel.TM‏ @Abel_TorresM 13 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @Abel_TorresM @Plinz @S33light

          While working on implementing intelligence I find fundamental to keep updated with neuroscience; I find also useful the input from fields like philosophy, but there experts under current knowledge seem to lack arguments to move the balance in favor of any of opposite positions

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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