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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      Patterns are the presentation. Before I can say that a red octagon is a 'sign' that represents the obligation to STOP, I have to be presented with a red octagon. It need not even be considered a pattern - it is a directly visible presence.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      Again, no. The octagon requires establishing shapes over gestalts over edges over adjacency relations. Each layer has to be constructed in a learning process and is not immediately given.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      The gestalts have to be presented first before anything can be learned about them. The gestalt is visible and it need not represent anything at all.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      From the perspective of your brain, the patterns on the retina are not even ordered before it learns cooccurrence statistics. After learning a lot of those, it can get a 2d map, but not a gestalt yet. Try and code it, you'll see.

      3 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      Gestalts are formed in the mind as a way of compressing the patterns (i.e. we discover exactly those gestalts that best encode the patterns, at the level between edge and shape).

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    6. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      There is no justification for a data compression schema to be rendered as visible. Brain activity can be res'd down in another part of the brain, but that activity is the data. No sights or models are generated, it's just chemistry repeating.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      Vision _is_ the set of functions representing the data compression (as textured objects in a space of positions). It does not exist in addition to that, or independently of it.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      It can't be, because you can have the exact same data compression in a computer without any graphic output or isomorphic geometry in the circuits. There's no triangle in the computer hardware, only in our experience of a screen.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      The arrangement of the computer hardware in your mind's model of physical space is not directly relevant for the function it computes. Experience emerges over models (which are computed functions), not over the substrate.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    10. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

      Why would any such thing as 'experience' 'emerge', and how? The brain needs no models, it's got hardware states controlling all behaviors, just like the computer.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 12 Aug 2019
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      Replying to @S33light @Abel_TorresM

      The models are macro state descriptions of the brain's micro states. You (a model of an experiencing subject) exist within the models, not within the brain.

      8:40 PM - 12 Aug 2019
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      • 3ॐc³ Jing 靖源 Manushaqe Muco
      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. 3ॐc³‏ @S33light 13 Aug 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @Abel_TorresM

          Models and descriptions have no physical or phenomenal power. Before an input can be read as a signal, there must be some innate phenomenological capacity to receive, inspect and signify. Without that, no physical event is an input/output or even a cause/effect.

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