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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. michael vassar‏ @HiFromMichaelV 4 Jul 2019
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      michael vassar Retweeted Mason  💦 👏 +  😷 +  🏃‍♂️ ✂️

      There have to be honest conversations about potentially dangerous beliefs. As the degree of imminence of the associated danger grows it can be more responsible to move those conversations behind closed doors but it's practically never valid to force them behind closed doors.https://twitter.com/webdevMason/status/1145373718111125504 …

      michael vassar added,

      Mason  💦 👏 +  😷 +  🏃‍♂️ ✂️ @webdevMason
      This is the axis along which I'm most opposed to the ultra-far left — "how costly should honest conversations about potentially dangerous beliefs be?" The cost MUST be low. We cannot skip steps. Human progress cannot rest on jaws either willingly shut or forcefully broken.
      Show this thread
      1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 4 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @HiFromMichaelV

      The traditional solution was that the discourse about social design took only place among the relevant practitioners, and behind closed doors. This is no longer possible, because no idea about the social domain can be kept secret.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 4 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @HiFromMichaelV

      Like in physics, you cannot hope to make much progress when you mostly debate with people that combine strong opinions with incomplete understanding, or that do not accept the norms of rational discourse. But I think that all questions need to be answered truthfully.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Simon DeDeo‏ @SimonDeDeo 4 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @HiFromMichaelV

      How do you know those norms are the right ones?

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    5. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 4 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @SimonDeDeo @HiFromMichaelV

      I think the norms of rational discourse are those that maximize the probability of a truthful outcome. This implies that you can question and develop them, but also that people have repeatedly figured them out throughout history.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Simon DeDeo‏ @SimonDeDeo 4 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @HiFromMichaelV

      You can choose consistent norms (or, rather, reject norms that lead to inconsistencies)—but you can't choose ones that maximize that probability. If you want to go with historically useful norms, then you have to pick an era! Pre- or post-Whewell, e.g.?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 4 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @SimonDeDeo @HiFromMichaelV

      Why can I not? I would start my argument with Habermas, but probably have to re-read, because my mind is different from the one that read him. The classical specification of dialectic seems fine to me, it roughly describes the algorithm that I approximate within my own mind.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Simon DeDeo‏ @SimonDeDeo 5 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @HiFromMichaelV

      “Seems fine” and “approximates what I do” don’t give guarantees (or even probabilities!) of having that property. No slur on you or Habermas, of course.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 5 Jul 2019
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      Replying to @SimonDeDeo @HiFromMichaelV

      Of course this does not constitute an argument. I am trying to cast a tentative net to get an idea of the shape of your argument while trying to make mine visible to you, for which twitter is probably unsuitable.

      8:05 AM - 5 Jul 2019 from Santa Fe, NM
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Daniël Hogendoorn‏ @dwnhogendoorn 5 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @SimonDeDeo @HiFromMichaelV

          The heuristics are those that increase exposure to variety and extremity. That, over time gives the best odds of covering the reachable possibility space. Encode in norms and practices.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Simon DeDeo‏ @SimonDeDeo 5 Jul 2019
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          Replying to @dwnhogendoorn @Plinz @HiFromMichaelV

          The true question is a recursive one. What are the norms for norms for norms... A good heuristic is “what worked”, but it prevents discovery out of a local attractor.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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