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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 5 May 2019
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      If you could build a machine that was able to generate every relevant scientific fact from first principles, do you think it would be done at some point, or that it would never stop?

      17 replies 6 retweets 42 likes
    2. God's Favorite Idiot‏ @eschudy 5 May 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Can't tell. Halting problem can't be solved.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. iamreddave‏ @iamreddave 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @eschudy @Plinz

      We do know that there would be scientific proofs it would not output. Gödel proved that

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @iamreddave @eschudy

      Gödel has proven the opposite: all scientific truths have to be constructed, a notion of unreachable truth cannot be consistently maintained. We had to change the semantics of mathematics into something that works, instead of claiming that reality is inconsistent with mathematics

      2 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    5. iamreddave‏ @iamreddave 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @eschudy

      I am not sure I follow. He proved in a consistent system there are unreachable truths. So we agreed to not always have to stay in the system. and so new proof techniques were ok once they made sense to us.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @iamreddave @eschudy

      No, he and Turing have shown that the classical mathematical notion of truth was not self consistent and had to be changed. Values are only equivalent to functions if the function is actually computable.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. iamreddave‏ @iamreddave 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @eschudy

      By classical notion of truth did people think that all truths would be provable inside the system? Because I see how they disproved that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @iamreddave @eschudy

      Classical mathematics was "timeless", i.e. a statement could be considered true regardless of the cost of computing it. Gödel and Turing could show that this breaks the semantics of mathematics if a proof is not effectively computable (i.e. the cost to compute it is not finite).

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. God's Favorite Idiot‏ @eschudy 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @Plinz @iamreddave

      Is this true? Because you can have proofs that are never ending, thus the halting problem. Think printing hello in an endless loop - this is in fact an infinite proof.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 May 2019
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      Replying to @eschudy @iamreddave

      Proving is just a lossless compression of a statement into axioms. A compression algorithm that does not terminate cannot be claimed to perform a compression.

      11:12 AM - 6 May 2019 from Palo Alto, CA
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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        2. God's Favorite Idiot‏ @eschudy 6 May 2019
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          Replying to @Plinz @iamreddave

          Ok, then by that reasoning, a proof should always halt. And there should be no halting problem, other than predicting when it stops, rather than IF it stops.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 6 May 2019
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          Replying to @eschudy @iamreddave

          I suspect that you still don't see it? In classical math, Pi is a number with a certain numerical value that can be expressed with a function. In constructive (computational math), Pi is just a function. All values are just decorated integers.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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