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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 15 Nov 2018
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    The difference between deterministic and indeterministic systems is whether the state transitions can be fully described by a function that does not know the time. The indeterministic function yields different values each time, so it is not compressible to a time independent one.

    10:11 PM - 15 Nov 2018 from Cambridge, MA
    • 2 Retweets
    • 23 Likes
    • Tristan Wegner kuzi Tim H Santiago Rentería Brent Stephens Dran Fren Dennis Hansen 🧢 Salvator R. Tarnmoor Jeff Brozena
    7 replies 2 retweets 23 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. mere_mortise‏ @mere_mortise 16 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        This assumes determinism, right? Indeterministic functions do not actually exist. They are just deterministic functions of incompressible input, i.e. that unpredictably changes over time.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 16 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @mere_mortise

        The input of the transition function is the system state. The transition function compresses the world to the starting state and the function itself. An indeterministic function has access to an incompressible sequence beyond the starting state.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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      2. Robert Janda‏ @RJsnda 15 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        Currently, is there any way in computer science to use principles of indeterminism (chaos) in “the modulation of reality”?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 15 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @RJsnda

        I don't know if I understand your question. Computer science deals with indeterministic things all the time, but we make our computers deterministic, because indeterminism means in practice just that you randomly leak the precious bits which you carefully measured or computed.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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      2. Ahmed Ghannam‏ @FieryPhoenix7 16 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        Isn't determinism just a special case of nondeterminism?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 16 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @FieryPhoenix7

        A nondeterministic system can only approximate determinism, while a deterministic system can implement a nondeterministic one (as long as the state sequence is finite and you can store the required incompressible part of the transition function).

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      2. davidgibson‏ @davidgibson 15 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        Hmm...I your tweet it looks like ‘function’ equals ‘system.’ Can’t a system have both deterministic and indeterministic functions? I do like the compressibility criteria for functions.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 15 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @davidgibson

        Of course! In my view, a system is a description that isolates a part of the state space of the world into a local one, so we can understand it, which amounts to compressing it with a transition function. If the system was fully indeterministic it would have only random states.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Ivan Aksamentov‏ @ivan_aksamentov 15 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        I thought deterministic and non-deterministic automatons are equivalent. Also, there are algorithms for conversion. Or is it not automatons we are talking about?

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 16 Nov 2018
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        Replying to @ivan_aksamentov

        They are! What I describe is the conversion.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation

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