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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic @Plinz

      Rulership, while etymologically linked to 'rules', is about a narrow range from the overall set of rules. It's tied to the role of ruling, which involves status as an authority, the kind that demands obedience not the kind that's knowledgeable.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic

      My question was not about etymology, but about governance. Gillis seems to say: cells are sociopathic, so lets not have a central nervous system and immune response, but lets give every cell a way to damage its neighbors and they'll form a superior organism.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Apologists for the state claim it is an organic whole, each of us is but a cell in its grand functioning. Gillis and co. call bullshit on that. Conflating the state with society is a partisan con.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic

      I don't doubt the sincerity of your statement, but could you rephrase it without moral emotions? Do you think that there is a stable social equilibrium without a state monopoly on violence, and it works better? If so, is there any empirical evidence or game theoretic proof?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Thank you for this request. I did get my start in this area from ethical incentives and Gillis is explicit about ethics being central. I have, however, shifted to far greater concern with systematics, incentive structures, economics, etc.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic @Plinz

      The predominance of the state is a fact, but a contingent one. You seem aware that its potency is closely tied with firearms. This tie suggests a couple things.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic @Plinz

      First, that it's somewhat novel. (500 years max.) Second, that it's to large degree a product of technological breakthroughs. These sink both the notion that it can be done away with on whim, and also the idea that the modern state is an indefinitely stable pattern.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic @Plinz

      Perhaps there are no game-theoretic mega-systems that will have the features you are curious about. To my eye it's too early to tell, but we can discern between people who yearn for something like that and people who pretty much don't.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic

      Humans are a species of chimp. Our emotional yearnings are largely the result of the evolution that made us who we are. The moral preferences even of majorities don't indicate what's true.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz

      Moral preferences are among the important facts, however. They are not disjoint from the set of consequential facts.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Oct 2018
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      Replying to @kaleidic

      The fact that you have moral preferences is a fact about how a brain is wired up as a consequence of innate traits and indoctrination. It is not different from believing in the Holy Trinity. But is it indicative about how society or other parts of the physical universe work?

      1:40 PM - 14 Oct 2018
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Tracy Harms‏ @kaleidic 14 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @Plinz

          Society's arrangements are not infinitely plastic to human choice, nor do ideas as to the nature of society constrain its actual properties.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 14 Oct 2018
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          Replying to @kaleidic

          Exactly. Social order may be modeled as several stable dynamic equilibria among which one might choose if a transition path can be found, but in practice history is a rollercoaster through a strange attractor.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        4. End of conversation

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