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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    1. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @sonyasupposedly @sonyaellenmann

      Obviously, there are moral standards by which human sacrifice is ok. The problem arises when someone tries to construe humanist moral standards (antiracism etc.) to justify human sacrifice as acceptable "in the right context". There exist different, incompatible moral standards.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @sonyaellenmann

      It seems to come down to a Kegan 5 discussion. Can you "unsee" your values, and understand that values are constructed rather than intrinsic (nothing has value by itself), that they are chosen, and how picking different values contributes to different social regulation?

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Dan listens to the world changing‏ @danlistensto 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @sonyaellenmann

      cultural/moral relativism of that severity is a great example of what David calls "the stage 4.5 nihilist trap"

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

      This is not nihilism. Nihilists don't try to resolve interpretations of history by imposing a "conversation" on an imaginary audience of morally synchronized peers. That's solid Kegan 3.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Dan listens to the world changing‏ @danlistensto 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @sonyaellenmann

      I disagree. Moral relativism is absolutely nihilism. Constructing an apologia for a brutal practice from a different culture on some level requires you to believe that *nothing* is sufficient to form a universal moral standard.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
    6. Dan listens to the world changing‏ @danlistensto 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @danlistensto @Plinz @sonyaellenmann

      The Kegan 3 position is like that of the original conquistadors. They had an overwhelmingly strong culturally endorsed imperative to do what they were doing so they never questioned the ethics of it. Modern cultural anthropology is an attempt to review this at Kegan 4.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. Dan listens to the world changing‏ @danlistensto 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @danlistensto @Plinz @sonyaellenmann

      Applying systematized objectivity of some kind is the stage 4 strategy. Attempting to criticize that as with this kind of relativist pomo deconstructive stance is the 4.5 nihilsm trap. Deriving a coherent meta-ethics is the goal of Kegan 5, and she didn't get there.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

      Hehe, I think that you interpret Kegan as some kind of moral ladder, instead of the number of layers in the self model. That is a trap in itself.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Dan listens to the world changing‏ @danlistensto 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @Plinz @sonyaellenmann

      I interpret as a hierarchical system (a ladder, yes) but not a kind of moral ladder. Just that certain types of ethical reasoning are associated with each stage.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 23 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @danlistensto @sonyaellenmann

      "Conversation" is a giveaway for considering ethics to be dependent on her hivemind, which means that she is not even self authoring. (Developing meta ethics sounds more like David's personal project, btw...)

      10:49 AM - 23 Jun 2018
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