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Plinz's profile
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
Joscha Bach
@Plinz

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Joscha Bach

@Plinz

FOLLOWS YOU. Artificial Intelligence, Cognitive Architectures, Computation. The goal is integrity, not conformity.

San Francisco, CA
bach.ai
Joined April 2009

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    Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 9 Jun 2018
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    Some people, like Christof Koch, think that a simulation cannot become conscious. The irony is that only simulations can be conscious. Consciousness is a simulated property of a simulated system.

    2:37 PM - 9 Jun 2018
    • 13 Retweets
    • 45 Likes
    • FFx sanjaya aidan l. coyne✝️🏡🔕☀️ sol [ピーチ🍑タィム]sachiko koshimizu森 mere_mortise Gerdes Frans Faase Al
    11 replies 13 retweets 45 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Venkatesh Rao‏ @vgr 9 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        I’m one of them and I think that’s an incoherent position. Simulation is one system representing a model of another and it has zero salience to the hard problem of consciousness.

        1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 9 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @vgr

        I am sorry that you cannot see it, and I am not sure if I can help you. I have failed to make myself understood to you in the past, and I have not yet figured out where our respective modes of making sense of the universe diverge.

        1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
      4. 24 more replies
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      2. was?‏ @umruehren 9 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        what is your criterion to tell apart a simulated system from a... also, what's the opposite of a simulated system?

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 9 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @umruehren

        The ground truth has an actually implemented transition function. A simulacrum can only be described as if it did. I think that is what the difference comes down to. Most models are simulacra.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      2. Where the Tweets have no name‏ @andrewthesmart 9 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        We argue that if simulations are real they aren't simulationshttps://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/yp3b7w/we-dont-live-in-a-simulation …

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 9 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @andrewthesmart

        A simulated apple can feed someone in the same simulation. Simulated water can make a simulated hand wet. Simulated information processing is the same as information processing, and simulated thoughts are thoughts.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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      2. Turil Cronburg‏ @thewiseturtle 10 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        I think maybe what he means is that for consciousness to emerge there needs to be some level of freedom that some simulations don't have. A normal computer simulation is, presumably, too linear.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @thewiseturtle

        I understand where your intuition comes from. But intuition is only reliable if it is built on deeply understanding a domain. Especially in philosophy, where we can have little experiential grounding.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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      2. NeuroMyths‏ @NeuroMyths 10 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @Plinz

        So the key to creating consciousness is to find what properties a simulation must entail in order to trick part of itself into believing it is experiencing something? (illusionism a la @keithfrankish)

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Joscha Bach‏ @Plinz 10 Jun 2018
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        Replying to @NeuroMyths @keithfrankish

        The beauty is that the brain itself does not have to be tricked, only the model does, and that is easy to achieve: the brain can just put it in there.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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