I find it weird that Nick can look at a new system that is explicitly designed to report content to law enforcement — then compare it to other systems that don’t. And then deny that there is a “slope” here.
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Replying to @matthew_d_green @sjmurdoch and
I find it weird that Matt can take a system which has far more aggressive capabilities and discount that slope as being far easier for his nightmares to go down.
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Replying to @ncweaver @sjmurdoch and
I assume that sometime before you write your next Lawfare column you’re going to admit that “system designed to report matches to law enforcement” is relevant to the discussion.
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Replying to @matthew_d_green @sjmurdoch and
Report matches to Apple which then forwards, yes. And I presume you are not going to admit that AV with silent upload is not also easy to pressure into “add forward”, and has the capability of scanning much more.
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Replying to @ncweaver @sjmurdoch and
These are a lot of weird caveats to add on to your very clear “I would scan everything” opinion above. Just stand by that and justify it to your audience. Don’t weasel around it.
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Replying to @matthew_d_green @ncweaver and
Hmm, but it is a fair point that AV is ignored, maybe people don't realize how it works? It's way (way) worse than you think. You could totally make a JPEG that triggers what are called "lowfi" rules (name varies based on vendor) and a human would see it?
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Replying to @taviso @matthew_d_green and
The point about current AV capabilities is a very good one. But the relationship between AV and the device owner is not adversarial. No one does jail time for getting malware on their device, and no company gets in trouble for failing to report detected viruses to the police.
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But it can be. This is not adversarial either unless you are dealing in CSAM, and if the worry is "it can be extended beyond CSAM by external pressure", you need to include on-by-default, shipped-with-the-OS AV like Windows Defender in the conversation.
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To me it's relevant that we're talking about phones and not laptops. The phone is the thing you carry around and shoot photos and videos with. Is there already widely deployed AV software on mobile devices that fits the parameters of this discussion?
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No, but, those photos should never match a known hash system because they are by definition unknown photos.
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Ok, but that's a different topic than the whole Windows Defender thing being a non-sequitur in this discussion.
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