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The light inside is broken, but I still work. The Cadillac of online bookmarking sites. Alleged nocoiner. http://pinboard.in  maciej@ceglowski.com +1 415 610 0231

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    1. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @Pinboard @mattyglesias @zeynep

      I think Zeynep is amazing but I think it’s a bad idea to tar the whole medical community with “there was near-universal consensus”. I think many doctors disagreed with the public-health authorities but didn’t have a way to say it.

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    2. Pinboard‏ @Pinboard 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @mattyglesias @zeynep

      I should specify that I’m referring to the public health authorities in the United States and our public intellectuals, not the medical system writ large, let alone the many people in East Asia who looked at this policy with incredulity

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @Pinboard @mattyglesias @zeynep

      I think Matt’s claim here is pretty valid: that the science community didn’t know how to muster a general discussion about how they didn’t agree with this advice being given by people in positions of authority, and Zeynep did.

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @Pinboard @mattyglesias

      I don’t really wanna get involved (no win) but the idea that the science community in the United States somehow actually agreed with masks being useful but I got to voice it is either ludicrous or they’re extremely good at keeping life-saving secrets in the middle of a pandemic.

      1 reply 4 retweets 20 likes
    5. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @matthew_d_green and

      If it wasn’t that recent, one could think it was plausible, that I just had the chance to voice something that they actually already knew. Instead I did my analysis and wrote my piece thinking it might end my career as a public intellectual. It was that against the grain. Anyway.

      3 replies 1 retweet 26 likes
    6. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @Pinboard @mattyglesias

      That’s fair. And this point shouldn’t take away from what you did, and how you put yourself out there. Yet within a few weeks of your piece, the idea that masks were essential to preventing COVID had become ubiquitous within the community.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @zeynep and

      I want to give some credit to the scientific community based on the notion that these ideas were out there in scientists’ mind and that they needed a catalyst to crystallize around, and you helped to provide that.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. zeynep tufekci‏Verified account @zeynep 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @Pinboard @mattyglesias

      Yeah, I guess my role was to read these "scientists" minds where they held these very secret thoughts while loudly claiming the opposite. It's been an interesting few months for a telepath like me! (Btw, WHO guidance took till June to change and it still has the science wrong).

      2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    9. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @zeynep @Pinboard @mattyglesias

      I guess I generally dislike any argument like @Pinboard’s that says “the whole scientific community was wrong” rather than that “there was diversity of thought in the expert community but the dissenters were afraid to speak out loudly against authoritative figurss.”

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @zeynep and

      The latter is more my experience of science, and I think the sea change in thought that happened by April was largely driven by a combination of this diversity of opinion and people (perhaps not coincidentally outside the exact field) having the courage to raise objections.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      Pinboard‏ @Pinboard 24 Aug 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @zeynep @mattyglesias

      I would ask you pretty emphatically not to put words in my mouth. How could I argue the “whole scientific community was wrong” when I spent the early pandemic in a country where universal mask wearing *was* the scientific and public health consensus?

      6:06 PM - 24 Aug 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Pinboard‏ @Pinboard 24 Aug 2020
          Replying to @Pinboard @matthew_d_green and

          I said pretty clearly what I meant upthread: near universal consensus by US public health authorities, science journalists and commentariat.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 24 Aug 2020
          Replying to @Pinboard @zeynep @mattyglesias

          Leaving aside your faux outrage, the point I took from Matt’s claim at the top was that the US medical community writ large did not have an effective way to counter bad advice from public health authorities, who obviously DID have effective ways to communicate (bad advice.)

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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