This is a fun one from Jacobin. (Hint: there are at least three socialists in this photo)pic.twitter.com/NxwoTbw4iz
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The problem with having arguments about this with the American left is that 'socialism' now covers everything to the left of the status quo of monopoly capitalism with a crumbling public sector. It is tempting to just wave the red flag and say "sure, whatever," to the comrades
But if you're really intellectually interested in workers' rights and why we can't have collectives and public ownership at the national level, just know that there's a pretty intellectually rigorous critique of socialism from the left, that argues this point about pluralism
If you are interested in transforming the relationship between the individual and the state in the direction of justice, and other people tried this but no one in history ever got it right, then study why they never got it right! It probably wasn't because you weren't around then
We so often talk past each other because one side argues about socialism as a means of organizing the economy, while the other side sees it as a system of power, in the name of the greater good. So we get: "Socialism in X devolved into tyranny" "Because it wasn't real socialism"
If anyone wants to seriously engage with this stuff, beyond six tweets from a jerkass bookmarking site, I highly recommend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leszek_Ko%C5%82akowski …, or more approachably, whatever is available in English by Adam Michnik
Debating socialism on Twitter is like playing a chess game where the opponent eats your pieces, and then boasts that they are undefeated
The Kronstadt sailors fought against the Bolsheviks because the means of production were never socialized. They were taken over by the state. Nationalizing /= socializing
That's kind of the point
so what about socializing the means of production slowly
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