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The light inside is broken, but I still work. The Cadillac of online bookmarking sites. Alleged nocoiner. http://pinboard.in  maciej@ceglowski.com +1 415 610 0231

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    1. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020

      11/ The ROBERT design also has the advantage of making it much easier to tweak the risk measurement algorithm over time (and possibly country), whereas for G+A that is built into the OS and won't change that easily.

      1 reply 2 retweets 7 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020

      12/ Overall, I'm a good bit more comfortable with the G+A approach, which structurally protects against many bad server behaviors. And the G+A design does make use of the OS/app API layer to defend against the weakenesses that ROBERT tries to address at the protocol level.

      1 reply 2 retweets 17 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020

      13/ But I don't think it's fair to discount the ROBERT approach by accusing it of disregarding privacy. That's not quite right. It's a *different* kind of privacy tradeoff. And it's more closely aligned with classic contact tracing.

      6 replies 3 retweets 26 likes
      Show this thread
    4. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @benadida

      I think if you exclude “a centralized and government run server knows the movements of the entire population” from consideration it is very private. I guess I don’t think you can exclude that.

      2 replies 1 retweet 12 likes
    5. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      ROBERT server doesn't learn nearly that much. It learns only the contact points where one infected individual is involved. That doesn't bother me in and of itself. Having a large database of everyone's identifiers does. Not useful on its own, but add a bit more data and boom.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @benadida

      ROBERT server learns the mapping from pseudonyms to all identities, and then learns all pseudonyms for infected patients right? That’s a ton of data.

      2 replies 0 retweets 7 likes
    7. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      Yes, agreed, it's a ton of data, but it's not remotely as bad as "the whole contact graph" which some folks have been worried about.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @benadida

      In the event of a server breach it potentially is, right? There are already malicious apps that include BT tracking code, and devices in stores that collect this data?

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green

      Oh yes, a breach is catastrophic. That's why G+A is better. Maybe that's the easiest way to summarize my point: in their designs, both G+A and ROBERT are clearly privacy conscious, with different trade-offs. But in case of a server breach, ROBERT is way more problematic.

      2 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    10. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @benadida

      That’s a very weird definition of “private”. One could also say that Google search and advertising is private as long as Google promises never to reveal that data outside of Google.

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
      Pinboard‏ @Pinboard 23 Apr 2020
      Replying to @matthew_d_green @benadida

      This is precisely Google's and Facebook's definition of privacy.

      9:23 AM - 23 Apr 2020
      • 3 Likes
      • Kyle Howells Internet Ethics Julien Launay
      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Matthew Green‏Verified account @matthew_d_green 23 Apr 2020
          Replying to @Pinboard @benadida

          Yep! And I don’t see how we get to selectively agree with it now. It’s very confusing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        3. Garrett Wollman‏ @garrett_wollman 23 Apr 2020
          Replying to @matthew_d_green @Pinboard @benadida

          Because there is a stark difference between a state doing something and a private business doing it.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Show replies
        1. Ben Adida‏ @benadida 23 Apr 2020
          Replying to @Pinboard @matthew_d_green

          That's a significant oversimplification. The ROBERT protocol tries hard to limit how much is sent to the server. It's too much, in my opinion, but it's not hoovering up everything, not even close.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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