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PhilosophyExp's profile
Jeremy Stangroom
Jeremy Stangroom
Jeremy Stangroom
@PhilosophyExp

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Jeremy Stangroom

@PhilosophyExp

I didn't get to where I am today - nowhere, obviously - by tweeting.

Toronto, Canada
philosophyexperiments.com
Joined March 2010

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    1. Wendy Emsen‏ @Wendxii Jun 29
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      You made a claim that men being good to women overwhelms the ones being bad. I refute your claim and you have yet to provide evidence to support it. While I in no way believe all men, I do believe most men are generally shitty towards women if not downright abusive.

      0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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    4. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Part of the thing here, & it's a point feminists make, generally, is to do with who is doing the doing. It's men waging war, men doing the killing. Of course, you can find exceptions - Eleanor of Aquitaine was pretty feisty - but overwhelmingly men were active, women passive.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

      I should say one has got to be slightly careful in terms of how one reads history, because men also wrote history (so women got airbrushed out). But nevertheless, while it's maybe true that more men were killed than women raped, it's men doing both these things. Not women.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

      Also, if you want to get a sense of how the ancients viewed women (and again, there will be variation, etc., so you've got be nuanced about it), take a look at what Aristotle thought: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristotle%27s_views_on_women … His views weren't eccentric or unusual.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

      This isn't to demonize individual men, or modern man, it's just about reporting history accurately. I tend to think of this stuff as being about structures or systems. It's not really about the morality of individual people.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

      If you want more examples of this sort of thing, you could take a look at a book I wrote with Ophelia Benson, "Does God Hate Women?". I think you'd be horrified at some of the things that happen to women in the name of religion.

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    10. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Okay, well this is quite a difficult topic. Basically, you're absolutely right, you can't say something like men tend to behave badly, therefore Tom is bad. You can't even say, men tend to behave badly, therefore Tom is probably bad.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

      But sociologists (and feminists) tend to think in terms of structures & systems & classes. These are abstractions, to do with the way in which societies are organised, and reflected in the attitudes, beliefs and behaviors of people - *but not inevitably* (which is your point).

      4:40 AM - 29 Jun 2019
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        2. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

          So, for example, if you look at say Saudi Arabia, the freedom of women is hugely restricted (they can't drive, for example - though that might be changing). The vast majority of Saudi men will think this is okay, because it's all they know. It's what they've been taught.

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        3. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

          And these patterns of behavior & belief are reproduced generation after generation. In this sort of context, it makes sense to think of men and women as classes (having certain kinds of things in common, certain interests, patterns of behavior, rights, beliefs, etc).

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        4. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

          However, it doesn't mean - and this again is your point - that the Saudi man who thinks women should be able to drive is morally responsible because many other men think differently. He's not contaminated by the guilt of other men (though the complication is he might benefit).

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

          In fact, I'd go as far to argue that it's not clear that Saudi men, in general, are immoral because they uphold an immoral system. They don't know any better. Effectively they've been indoctrinated into the system.

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        6. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

          TLDR: Sociologists tend to think in terms of structures of behavior, reproduced generation after generation. They're operating at a higher level of abstraction than that of individual people, and aren't really in the business of making moral claims about people's behavior.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp Jun 29
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @Wendxii

          I realize that's all quite complicated, but it is a complex issue. It's the sort of thing that keeps theoretical sociologists in a career, and philosophers musing through the night.

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        8. End of conversation

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