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PhilosophyExp's profile
Jeremy Stangroom
Jeremy Stangroom
Jeremy Stangroom
@PhilosophyExp

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Jeremy Stangroom

@PhilosophyExp

I didn't get to where I am today - nowhere, obviously - by tweeting.

Toronto, Canada
philosophyexperiments.com
Joined March 2010

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    1. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @svenosaurus

      Well, I've not seen the meme, and anyway don't care it propagates it. And secondly, it's not a test with zero power. It's absolutely explicitly (see the way the second choice is phrased) a test with only very small amount of power. Third, you're taking it way too seriously!

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp

      First, I used the word “meme” in its original (Dawkins) meaning, so “I’ve not seen the meme” doesn’t make sense in response to it. The meme here is the idea that liberals want Trump to fail in everything, including diplomacy and peace talks. 1/

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @svenosaurus @PhilosophyExp

      Second, it literally is a test with zero power if we agree on what I said previously (to which you at least agreed arguendo, as you responded “how does that make it...”). It has zero probability of rejecting H0 (non-tribal) if H1 (tribal) is true. 2/

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @svenosaurus @PhilosophyExp

      Third, I’m taking it seriously because it contributes to bothsideism, which is extremely pernicious while we are facing a real danger of losing democratic institutions. 3/

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @svenosaurus

      We've had this conversation before. It's an entirely reasonable view that "left lunacy" makes losing democratic institutions more likely. For example, well there are endless examples, but 18 years of Thatcherite rule, Michael Foot & longest suicide note in history...

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp @svenosaurus

      Or the polarization engendered by nationalist conflicts. Perfectly reasonable to suppose that though both sides are not equally bad, you're not going to get rid of the worse side before the less bad side reforms. That was absolutely certainly the case in the UK in the 1980s.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp

      That looks like a terrible analogy. I don’t like Thatcher, but I’m not aware of her dismantling British institutions. Maybe I don’t know enough about UK, but I probably would have heard of something like that. And Labor in 1970s was way more left than anything of note in the US.

      3 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @svenosaurus @PhilosophyExp

      I grew up in a communist dictatorship (though a soft one) and have witnessed my home country’s young democracy fail. Those are far more pertinent experiences than the normal left-right polarization of UK in decades following WW2.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @svenosaurus

      Okay, but how's the relevant? My argument is that "bothsideism" is necessary in situations where the better side is likely unelectable, which delivers victory to the worse side (as was the case in the 1980s in the UK). You've given no response to that as a principled position.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @PhilosophyExp

      It’s relevant because the problem now is US sliding into that type of society. It is not in the same category as a mere ideological conflict within a stable democratic framework. If you think in terms of the latter, you are misdiagnosing.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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      Replying to @svenosaurus

      It's not relevant because the severity of the diagnosis makes no difference, the solution remains the same. Thatcherism could have been a lot worse. The Left were still unelectable. Turns out large chunks of the population don't mind terrible elected leaders if they're populists.

      10:29 AM - 12 Jun 2018
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        2. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp

          Again, it’s not severity, it’s a categorical difference. Bad policy is not like undermining the constitutional order. Also, as @paulkrugman said the other day, with Trump it’s not different solutions to problems, it’s making up problems that don’t exist.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @svenosaurus @paulkrugman

          But none of that makes a difference. If left antics make the left unelectable, then they've got to be criticized. The fact that we're in a new kind of politics, etc., if it's true, doesn't make any difference to the basic electoral reality.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @svenosaurus

          If identity politics delivers Trump thousands of voters (enough to tip the balance in key states), and if the judgment is that the only road forward is electoral, then you have to go after identity politics. It's not a distraction. It's not absolutely essential.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @svenosaurus

          Of course, you can argue that's no the situation here, that there is a road to victory for the Dems even if identity politics continues to rule the roost, but that's an empirical judgment (about which honest interlocutors might come to a different conclusion).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp @svenosaurus

          Pragmatism doesn't just mean supporting less extreme tendencies, though it might. It sometimes requires going after your own fringe (as it did in the 1980s with the Labour Party).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp

          In the US, it is the left fringe that goes after the Democratic Party and tips close elections to Republicans. That’s the only way Republicans won any presidential election since 1988.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Jeremy Stangroom‏ @PhilosophyExp 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @svenosaurus

          Okay, I should leave this... but you think this point supports your position!? You don't think it means you have to sort out your left fringe? (And all politics is not identity politics. You don't know the terrain. Hegemonic project vs. identity politics, for example).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Serial Banana Citizen‏ @svenosaurus 12 Jun 2018
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          Replying to @PhilosophyExp

          I’m not as ignorant as you may think. But I don’t think the Marxist framework of class vs. nation generalizes properly as class vs. everything else, which is what those who denounce “identity politics” from the left seem to assume. 1/

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