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ParadiseDelayed's profile
John from Synanon
John from Synanon
John from Synanon
@ParadiseDelayed

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John from Synanon

@ParadiseDelayed

Cringe and redpilled baizuo mercianist #NiceRx wagecuck movie takes account

West Bingfordhamptonshire
curiouscat.me/XenoFry
Joined January 2017

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    1. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

      It's not axiomatic, I checked. Consciousness has the wrong kinds of properties to be physical. Physics is epistemically objective. Consciousness is epistemically subjective.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    2. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Alrenous

      We do not yet fully understand matter or consciousness (or the broader category of awareness) so cannot say that conclusively. Concluding upon dualism requires a metaphysical leap which I wouldn't take but I don't begrudge it to anyone else

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

      Do you understand the properties of objectivity and subjectivity? That's all that's required. Physics can be investigated by third parties. Consciousness can only be investigated in the first person. The purely naive intuition is accurate in this case.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Alrenous

      If we can only arrive at conclusions about our own consciousness subjectively this requires us to be agnostic about AIs. How do we rule out that they are subjectively aware of their own states without ourselves have the, unattainable for us, subjective access to those systems

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

      Because we can observe their behaviour. If it is predictable from physical models, it isn't conscious. But we don't have to be dumb about it. Find the consciousness machine in the brain. Go look to see if the AI has one. (It doesn't.)

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Alrenous @ParadiseDelayed

      It's drastically easier to look for the seat of consciousness when you know it has to escape the bounds of physics somehow. It's a very tight constraint on the search space.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Alrenous

      Well yes you could call that a tight constraint! The human brain does not escape the bounds of physics. We don't have advanced AIs yet but not unreasonable to expect unpredictable behaviour

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    8. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

      The human brain very plausibly escapes the bounds of physics. Physics has undecideable variables. If some of those variables are not universally undecdeable, we have a communication tunnel.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Alrenous

      Please clarify what undecidable variables you are referring to?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

      Whether an electron will choose spin up or spin down is undecideable until it is actually decided.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
      Replying to @Alrenous

      It's unlikely quantum effects play any realistic role in brain processes. If they do somehow play a role in awareness an AI could construct modules that utilize quantum effects in any case so this doesn't rule out conscious or aware AIs

      6:27 AM - 30 Dec 2017
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

          All the components for a quantum amplifier exist in the brain. Indeed it would better explain why it maintains the blood-brain barrier. You're thinking of maintaining quantum coherence. That's not how it works.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @Alrenous

          The blood-brain exists to protect the brain from blood-born infections. Are you referring to Roger Penrose's theory about microtubes in the brain? It didn't have many supporters last time I checked

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

          If it protects from infections better than letting white blood cells in, every major organ would have one. That's what they say it does because they don't know what it's actually for.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @Alrenous

          How could it act as a 'quantum amplifier' if it doesn't maintain quantum coherence at all?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

          Penrose's microtubules are supposed to maintain coherence. A quantum amplifier measures and amplifies decoherence events. And it is only a candidate machine - this is an empirical question. There's little point arguing rigorously about something that may not exist.

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        7. John from Synanon‏ @ParadiseDelayed 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @Alrenous

          I think Penrose's theory is unlikely but it doesn't matter regarding the original question, because if that is how the brain becomes aware you could build an AI with quantum microtubes to make a conscious AI. I think any feature that can evolve can be artificially replicated

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Alrenous‏ @Alrenous 30 Dec 2017
          Replying to @ParadiseDelayed

          Of course. But not accidentally.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        9. End of conversation

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