Stoked to be doing another interview with @Culadasa tomorrow!
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I'm watching this debate and I think you are both pursuing different end goals? Jody seems to be erring on the side of no ego fixation and Michael on the side of dissolving ego-fixation but retaining a tether to developmental and moral play. Is this accurate?
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Maybe. I'm really just wanting to point out that the instruction "just get as concentrated as possible" (which is not exactly what Jody is saying, but can easily be misconstrued as what he is saying) is somewhat misleading and also possibly dangerous.
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My instruction would be to quietly and without judgement bring attention back to object, that this gesture is really what it is all about, and that there is no goal other than to continue this gesture in meditation for as long as you are alive. The benefits will fall from this.
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"Attention is the most basic form of love."https://www.tarabrach.com/attention-the-most-basic-form-of-love/ …
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I'm not a scholar but according Ajaan Geoff, MN117 indicates first seven factors are requested for concentration as final factor. There's value in that doctrine, I thought I'd heard Mr Yates say similar in his folksy way.
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Factors requisite for what?
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Sentient comet
Meditation freak
Teacher
Author
Podcaster
SF nerd
Serial comma enthusiast
Raised by wolves
Bad influence 
) is that attention on its own can lead to real trouble. And that even increasing attention requires understanding how to work w/ emotional/mental blocks.
