I also think that we have basically no access to what Siddhattha's internal experience was. Given that he was a human being, I think it is highly likely that his state of existential shock was accompanied by some very powerful emotions. He wasn't the Buddha at that point!
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We have access to the textual tradition, which describes his existential shock in deeply emotional terms. Such existential shock is a "stirring" force that when paired with serene confidence (upon witnessing the fourth sight) propels one onto the path to freedom from suffering.
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Yes, and the textual tradition has to be read as incomplete, and as performing various functions other than Recording Exactly How it All Went Down. I doubt that "serene confidence" was the only experience he had when he saw the monk
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Replying to @Timber_22 @NoaidiX and
A mix of desperation, curiosity, derring-do, fear, faith, doubt, defiance was, as likely as not, roiling underneath the lid of serene confidence. That confidence (borne of inspiration) was no doubt powerful, but how could it have been serene?
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Replying to @Timber_22 @NoaidiX and
...when it led to him doing this to himself? That looks pretty fuckin' intense to me.pic.twitter.com/Fobod2d78V
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And you may recall that he subsequently disowned such practices (i.e., self-mortification) as providing no relief from suffering.
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Oh my goodness, of course I know that. The point I'm making is that I highly doubt that it's useful (anymore) to portray Siddhattha as already embodying "serene confidence".
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Replying to @Timber_22 @NoaidiX and
Think about what it would mean for a human being to be raised in a pleasure palace and to be lied to about the basic facts of mortality. People need to understand how shocking the implications of the mythos / origin story actually are.
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Exactly my point. Existential shock is a necessary ingredient of the path. It is not to be conflated with the goal, or with deep depression. When paired with serene confidence, it leads onward to liberation.
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We could have a debate show, like youtube livestreams or a podcast "Sutra v. Tantra" Anyways, let's wrap this up, and not bother Maria's TL too much more. I want to appreciate you,
@NoaidiX, for highlighting for me the importance of "existential shock".2 replies 1 retweet 0 likes
Was this a debate? In my experience, sutra and tantra are by no means opposing. Appreciation to you as well.
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If I could hit the follow button on your account *again*, I would.
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The feeling is mutual, friend.
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End of conversation
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