i don't disagree about this
but I will always champion those who look for non-renunciative means to find liberation.
Such championing doesn't diminish or occlude my appreciation and respect for those who follow more renunciative styles.
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Replying to @Timber_22 @NoaidiX and
I also think that we have basically no access to what Siddhattha's internal experience was. Given that he was a human being, I think it is highly likely that his state of existential shock was accompanied by some very powerful emotions. He wasn't the Buddha at that point!
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We have access to the textual tradition, which describes his existential shock in deeply emotional terms. Such existential shock is a "stirring" force that when paired with serene confidence (upon witnessing the fourth sight) propels one onto the path to freedom from suffering.
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Yes, and the textual tradition has to be read as incomplete, and as performing various functions other than Recording Exactly How it All Went Down. I doubt that "serene confidence" was the only experience he had when he saw the monk
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Replying to @Timber_22 @NoaidiX and
A mix of desperation, curiosity, derring-do, fear, faith, doubt, defiance was, as likely as not, roiling underneath the lid of serene confidence. That confidence (borne of inspiration) was no doubt powerful, but how could it have been serene?
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Replying to @Timber_22 @NoaidiX and
...when it led to him doing this to himself? That looks pretty fuckin' intense to me.pic.twitter.com/Fobod2d78V
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And you may recall that he subsequently disowned such practices (i.e., self-mortification) as providing no relief from suffering.
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Oh my goodness, of course I know that. The point I'm making is that I highly doubt that it's useful (anymore) to portray Siddhattha as already embodying "serene confidence".
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Agreed. The point I'm making is that depression is not a goal of Buddhist practice.
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We're participating in an age-old goal of dharma combat, I guess. Of course depression is not a goal of Buddhist practice. I think it's a 1. hazard along the way and 2. a likely side-effect
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No combat on my end, nor detected from me on yours. We're on the same page and have been all along, from my perspective. I've been responding to the "deep depression" claim (not yours) if it hasn't been clear from my numerous references to it.
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Well, that's brotherly of you to say, *and* there was a little bit of combat on my end. Because I think that deep depression claim has a kernel or nugget of truth to it. And I think it benefits others to both "listen in" to that, and to speak up for it.
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