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Noahpinion's profile
Noah Smith
Noah Smith
Noah Smith
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@Noahpinion

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Noah SmithVerified account

@Noahpinion

Bloomberg Opinion writer. Elected "top neoliberal shill" of 2018. Occasionally posts anime gifs.

San Francisco, CA
bloomberg.com/view/contribut…
Joined April 2011

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    Noah Smith‏Verified account @Noahpinion Oct 30

    Noah Smith Retweeted Lindsey Graham

    This is wrong, of course. SCOTUS ruled in 1898 that "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" meant subject to U.S. law (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark …). Arguing that illegal immigrants aren't subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S. would mean that U.S. law doesn't apply to them.https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1057362118633238528 …

    Noah Smith added,

    Lindsey GrahamVerified account @LindseyGrahamSC
    The Supreme Court has never ruled on the issue of whether birthright citizenship applies to children born of illegal immigrants in the United States. https://www.axios.com/mike-pence-birthright-citizenship-supreme-court-ff6a26df-169a-4df2-8a67-0df3e47f6061.html …
    Show this thread
    5:28 PM - 30 Oct 2018
    • 50 Retweets
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    18 replies 50 retweets 191 likes
      1. Noah Smith‏Verified account @Noahpinion Oct 30

        Noah Feldman writes in Bloomberg today that the argument Graham is making is "pretty clearly wrong":https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-10-30/birthright-citizenship-puts-trump-judges-in-a-bind …

        7 replies 10 retweets 53 likes
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      1. New conversation
      2. Benjamin Shapero‏ @realBenShapero Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        It's obviously referring to children of people with diplomatic immunity.

        1 reply 0 retweets 7 likes
      3. Noah Smith‏Verified account @Noahpinion Oct 30
        Replying to @realBenShapero

        At the time it was probably referring to children of Native American tribes that were at war with the U.S.

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. Benjamin Shapero‏ @realBenShapero Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        That too, but diplomats was specifically cited as an example by drafters of the 14th.

        0 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. McCain fan‏ @NeverTr74704466 Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        Only if the are residents. The decision does not apply to tourists

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Adam Block‏ @ablock Oct 31
        Replying to @NeverTr74704466 @Noahpinion

        Wrong. The amendment — you may want to, ah, read it — states only that the child has to be subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Noah Smith‏Verified account @Noahpinion Oct 31
        Replying to @ablock @NeverTr74704466

        "subject to jurisdiction", as per the Supreme Court, means subject to U.S. laws. Hence, illegal immigrants are subject to U.S. jurisdiction and their children are therefore citizens.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. McCain fan‏ @NeverTr74704466 Oct 31
        Replying to @Noahpinion @ablock

        Yes. The decision also cited residence as key to the case. So this may not cover tourists

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. McCain fan‏ @NeverTr74704466 Oct 31
        Replying to @NeverTr74704466 @Noahpinion @ablock

        I'd also note that according to Mueller, several Russians in Russia are subject to our election laws, and thus our jurisdiction. Jurisdiction in the context of the 14th refers to who the person answers to: our government or another.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      7. McCain fan‏ @NeverTr74704466 Oct 31
        Replying to @NeverTr74704466 @Noahpinion @ablock

        The 1866 law governing citizenship states that anyone born here who is not subject to a foreign power is a citizen. A tourist is a subject of a foreign power. As are foreign students, temporary guest workers, and temporary refugees

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      8. McCain fan‏ @NeverTr74704466 Oct 31
        Replying to @NeverTr74704466 @Noahpinion @ablock

        Meanwhile, US citizens remain subject to US jurisdiction when traveling abroad. The same is true of most foreigners, they remain legally subjects of their home countries. They may owe taxes to their home countries as well as military service.

        2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      9. McCain fan‏ @NeverTr74704466 Oct 31
        Replying to @NeverTr74704466 @Noahpinion @ablock

        Now granted, the currently accepted interpretation of the clause is entirely reasonable. And I predict the Supreme Court would uphold that interpretation if they had to rule on it. But I also think there is room for reasonable limitations for those without residence here

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      10. 1 more reply
      1. New conversation
      2. fulano‏ @cowabungatime Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        The Supreme Court could, of course, pull a ruling out of its ass overturning Wong Kim Ark without also giving immigrants the right to commit crimes. I think it's unlikely there are 5 votes for that, but if there are it won't matter what people say on Twitter!

        1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      3. fulano‏ @cowabungatime Oct 30
        Replying to @cowabungatime @Noahpinion

        The Supreme Court is, and has always been a political body. 100 years ago the Supreme Court believed that the 14th amendment didn't protect civil rights for black people but *did* make laws against child labor unconstitutional.

        0 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. Saoirse Like Inaoirse‏ @HeadAsploding Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        I guess their new position is UNLOCK THEM UP.

        0 replies 1 retweet 2 likes
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      1. Dacaagedout‏ @dacaagedout Oct 31
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        The IRS definitely thinks the law applies to me despite my being undocumented. Homies been taxing me since I was 16. I'm sure my kids will be taxed too.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. Evan Bear‏ @evanbear20 Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        That phrase, "subject to the jurisdiction," didn't even need "interpretation" in Wong Kim Ark. "Subject to US law" is just what those words literally mean.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1. Sandrew Legit Passthru, LLC‏ @SandrewFinance Oct 31
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        It’s simpler than all that. The 14A doesn’t mention the word “parents,” so a parent’s status can’t possibly affect the citizenship of a child born in the United States. Whatever the phrase “subject to the jurisdiction” means, it must apply to the child, not her parents.

        0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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      2. Kjell "Shell" Nygren‏ @PaSwede Oct 30
        Replying to @Noahpinion

        I agree with that although I am not sure if there was even a distinction between legal and illegal (documented/undocumented) immigrants back in the 1800s. I think everyone probable was just an immigrant.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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