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NickSzabo4's profile
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo  🔑
@NickSzabo4

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Nick Szabo  🔑

@NickSzabo4

Blockchain, cryptocurrency, and smart contracts pioneer. (RT/Fav/Follow does not imply endorsement). Blog: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com 

Joined June 2014

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    1. nic carter‏ @nic__carter Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @koeppelmann @udiWertheimer and

      Yeah looks like he’s following the “Ou rule” aka wait until security spend matches txn value ~52 days for $1b. I think that’s overkill.

      3 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    2. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @nic__carter @koeppelmann and

      Fernando Nieto Retweeted Fernando Nieto

      This rule is provably not useful for big enough payments (N txs), @eiaine.https://twitter.com/fnietom/status/1118973616400535557?s=21 …

      Fernando Nieto added,

      Fernando Nieto @fnietom
      It would cost 585,000 BTC to reorg the whole chain in 325 days, and an additional 585,000 BTC to catch up with the honest chain from genesis in that time. Either PoW is not the only thing securing Bitcoin or Satoshi should be worried about his coins security after next halving. pic.twitter.com/qbPaPdH7py
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    3. Elaine  🐤 🇮🇨‏Verified account @eiaine Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @nic__carter and

      hmm... i disagree with the claim that it would cost 585,000 BTC to reorg the whole chain in 325 days

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    4. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @eiaine @nic__carter and

      Do you think electricity market liquidity would increase that value much more than economies of scale in equipment would reduce it or what’s your rationale?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Elaine  🐤 🇮🇨‏Verified account @eiaine Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @nic__carter and

      - electricity/hashrate sold in fiat, and would need to secure the resources up front (it would be a huge loss to abandon the effort halfway) - impossible to predict hashrate/price a year in advance

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    6. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @eiaine @nic__carter and

      I don’t see how those arguments can change that figure significantly. Even if it’s double what I stated it would falsify your security rule.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @eiaine and

      I haven't seen anything falsified here. What are you talking about?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @eiaine and

      The cost of reorging the whole chain is lower than total value of the network. For a large enough payment you cannot rely on waiting for enough confirmations to accumulate PoW in order to make it economically irrational to revert. Security is not just PoW.

      2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
    9. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @eiaine and

      That means Bitcoin doesn't secure such a large transaction. Something else may or may not secure it, but Bitcoin does not. What did you think it meant?

      2 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
    10. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 8
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @eiaine and

      I see. Do you have a post explaining this in depth? I’d mainly want to understand if you consider coin issuance one of those large paymets, with many recipients, or you think coinbases are different from single tx payment outputs.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 8
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @eiaine and

      It follows quite straightforwardly from what you just tweeted. The Bitcoin protocol does not secure such a large tx in an exchange, since benefit to attacker can be greater than the cost the protocol imposes. If you can't follow simple logic I have nothing else to say to you.

      9:07 AM - 8 Sep 2019
      • 5 Likes
      • Amoveo John Woods Riding Unicorns to the Moon JVCHAF Digital Currency Laboratories
      3 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Elaine  🐤 🇮🇨‏Verified account @eiaine Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @fnietom and

          i think @fnietom is trying to point out that as mining hw improves, it becomes easier to reorg very old blocks. perhaps an argument against going to moon too fast?

          2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. Shinobi[#Toxic]‏ @brian_trollz Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @eiaine @NickSzabo4 and

          But thats absolutely not the case. The more mining HW improves, the less relevant the hardware is in mining operational costs. HW efficiency just shifts costs from hardware to electricity.

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        4. Elaine  🐤 🇮🇨‏Verified account @eiaine Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @brian_trollz @NickSzabo4 and

          well yeah, it takes less electricity today to re-mine the earliest blocks and steal the coinbase tx's

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Shinobi[#Toxic]‏ @brian_trollz Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @eiaine @NickSzabo4 and

          Yeah, but practically: good luck finding enough electricity. Even if you do: you can only go so far because dev's used to checkpoint.

          4 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
        6. Shinobi[#Toxic]‏ @brian_trollz Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @brian_trollz @eiaine and

          This is one thing I think that is far under-discussed in this space. Bitcoin's mining incentives _now_ can be looked at in terms of cost/benefit very simply. That is absolutely not a valid analysis long term when you consider available electricity...

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        7. Shinobi[#Toxic]‏ @brian_trollz Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @brian_trollz @eiaine and

          ..., the other electricity consumers, the competition of Bitcoin with every other good consuming electricity, etc. The bigger Bitcoin gets, the more complex those incentives get.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. End of conversation
        1. Digital Currency Laboratories‏ @DCLcoins Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @fnietom and

          this is where proof of stake shows its power. for an attack on a billion dollar tx enough has to be purchased on the market to secure the large stake which has the effect of driving up the cost to attack as supply at price is never 100%

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. GekkoCrypto  🐻‏ @Saddler_777 Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @fnietom and

          It goes against the interests of the attacker to change the transaction as it will make their bags and the money and infrastructure needed to commit attack.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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