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NickSzabo4's profile
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo  🔑
@NickSzabo4

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Nick Szabo  🔑

@NickSzabo4

Blockchain, cryptocurrency, and smart contracts pioneer. (RT/Fav/Follow does not imply endorsement). Blog: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com 

Joined June 2014

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    1. Matthew Cantor‏ @MattCantor Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @jronkain @NickSzabo4

      Cannot be assumed that attacker is economically motivated

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    2. ZigZag‏ @Zig_Zagging Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MattCantor @jronkain @NickSzabo4

      Right, however if their goal is to comprise the BTC protocol they can target any block.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    3. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Zig_Zagging @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

      It does not make any sense! If you have just received 94,504 BTC, why would you use that to ruin its price unless you had just sold $1B worth of collateral to receive BTC as a payment and that and you plan to claim you never got the BTC in the first place?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    4. ZigZag‏ @Zig_Zagging Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @jronkain @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

      I agree. I only see one reason to do such an attack and that is to break the entire protocol. If 94k BTC was ever stolen due to a malicious block reorg, the trust in BTC would be broken. Therefore such an attack likely wouldn't be financially motivated.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Zig_Zagging @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

      Sorry, it still does not make any sense: This threat vector absolutely is hypothetical. If you want to use $1B to attack BTC, why on Earth to do it in such a complicated way?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. ZigZag‏ @Zig_Zagging Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @jronkain @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

      I also agree with that - if you want to attack BTC and break it you can attack any block. Doesn't have to be a high value block.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Matthew Cantor‏ @MattCantor Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Zig_Zagging @jronkain @NickSzabo4

      Nonetheless this does not support the claim that a high value block is somehow to big to fail

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    8. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

      The claim was that the funds in the TX would be used to nullify the block by a reorg through a double spend. Please explain that scenario. Somebody had a reason to send 94,5k BTC so explain how that could be used to attack the chain.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    9. Matthew Cantor‏ @MattCantor Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @jronkain @NickSzabo4

      1. You have a lot of bitcoin 2. Acquire a short position on a lot of bitcoin 3. Sell your bitcoin 4. Reorg the Tx selling the bitcoin 5. Close the short position In before “you can’t acquire a sizable short position without KYC”

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

      Show me an exchange that lets you to do that with 94,504 BTC i.e. one Billion US dollars. Remember, exchange deals are off chain. OTC deals are even worse because they are private but parties know each other. Give me a break.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @jronkain @MattCantor

      Great so now we are going to rely on exchange security, like the users of Mt. Gox etc. etc. etc. etc. did, but for making claims about the irreversibility of BItcoin itself? Idiotic.

      12:00 PM - 7 Sep 2019
      • 1 Like
      • Riding Unicorns to the Moon
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @MattCantor

          My point was simply that using the funds within the TX to fund to attack does not make sense. Overly complicated way of attacking the chain. Third party causing havoc for a high value block is a completely separate thing.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @jronkain @NickSzabo4 @MattCantor

          I am serious here. What is the description of a realistic attack vector of double spending 94k BTC and using that for a chain reorg and not getting caught by leveraging the exchanges? Remember, you need to pay the miners to contribute as well. I am listening.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Matthew Cantor‏ @MattCantor Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @jronkain @NickSzabo4

          In your scenario is it possible to acquire a sizeable short position without KYC?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

          Tell me where to get such a short postion from without KYC. From the asset side it would only take like Satoshi or another OG to decide to kill it all through early mined coins (which these were not, they were having low UTXO age).

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Matthew Cantor‏ @MattCantor Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @jronkain @NickSzabo4

          Ok. IMO it is more interesting to analyze bitcoin security without reliance on out-of-protocol assumptions (eg impossible to obtain sizeable short position without KYC, impossible to rent significant HP). Because those assumptions may not always apply. But to each their own

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        7. Juha Ronkainen ⚡️‏ @jronkain Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @MattCantor @NickSzabo4

          The world with its realities exist as SN wrote about 51% attack. BTC security does allow that double spend, but the realities do not make it feasible, especially with the current hash rate cost. I see no way to use this TX to reorg it since it cannot be used profitably.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. End of conversation

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