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NickSzabo4's profile
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo  🔑
@NickSzabo4

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Nick Szabo  🔑

@NickSzabo4

Blockchain, cryptocurrency, and smart contracts pioneer. (RT/Fav/Follow does not imply endorsement). Blog: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com 

Joined June 2014

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    1. Martin Köppelmann‏ @koeppelmann Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @udiWertheimer @SchalkDormehl @ArthurB

      so what is this magic number? "wait for sufficient confirmations" If you can't tell me now how do you expect the average user to know. For years the narrative was that this magic number is 6.

      3 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    2. nic carter‏ @nic__carter Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @koeppelmann @udiWertheimer and

      Bitcoin finality isn’t binary. Anyone telling you six is sufficient in all cases is lying. It was a semi arbitrary number Satoshi offhandedly mentioned

      3 replies 1 retweet 60 likes
    3. nic carter‏ @nic__carter Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @nic__carter @koeppelmann and

      For casual use 1 or 2 is fine. For large transactions the jury is still out - there is no widespread model. If I were receiving $1b I would probably wait for a few days worth of confs

      4 replies 0 retweets 54 likes
    4. Martin Köppelmann‏ @koeppelmann Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @nic__carter @udiWertheimer and

      @NickSzabo4 suggests to wait a few month for $1b.

      4 replies 0 retweets 10 likes
    5. nic carter‏ @nic__carter Sep 6
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @koeppelmann @udiWertheimer and

      Yeah looks like he’s following the “Ou rule” aka wait until security spend matches txn value ~52 days for $1b. I think that’s overkill.

      3 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    6. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @nic__carter @koeppelmann and

      Fernando Nieto Retweeted Fernando Nieto

      This rule is provably not useful for big enough payments (N txs), @eiaine.https://twitter.com/fnietom/status/1118973616400535557?s=21 …

      Fernando Nieto added,

      Fernando Nieto @fnietom
      It would cost 585,000 BTC to reorg the whole chain in 325 days, and an additional 585,000 BTC to catch up with the honest chain from genesis in that time. Either PoW is not the only thing securing Bitcoin or Satoshi should be worried about his coins security after next halving. pic.twitter.com/qbPaPdH7py
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    7. Elaine  🐤 🇮🇨‏Verified account @eiaine Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @nic__carter and

      hmm... i disagree with the claim that it would cost 585,000 BTC to reorg the whole chain in 325 days

      2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    8. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @eiaine @nic__carter and

      Do you think electricity market liquidity would increase that value much more than economies of scale in equipment would reduce it or what’s your rationale?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    9. Elaine  🐤 🇮🇨‏Verified account @eiaine Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @nic__carter and

      - electricity/hashrate sold in fiat, and would need to secure the resources up front (it would be a huge loss to abandon the effort halfway) - impossible to predict hashrate/price a year in advance

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
    10. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @eiaine @nic__carter and

      I don’t see how those arguments can change that figure significantly. Even if it’s double what I stated it would falsify your security rule.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 7
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @fnietom @eiaine and

      I haven't seen anything falsified here. What are you talking about?

      11:30 AM - 7 Sep 2019
      • 1 Like
      • Riding Unicorns to the Moon
      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        1. New conversation
        2. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @eiaine and

          The cost of reorging the whole chain is lower than total value of the network. For a large enough payment you cannot rely on waiting for enough confirmations to accumulate PoW in order to make it economically irrational to revert. Security is not just PoW.

          2 replies 1 retweet 1 like
        3. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 7
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @fnietom @eiaine and

          That means Bitcoin doesn't secure such a large transaction. Something else may or may not secure it, but Bitcoin does not. What did you think it meant?

          2 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
        4. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @eiaine and

          I see. Do you have a post explaining this in depth? I’d mainly want to understand if you consider coin issuance one of those large paymets, with many recipients, or you think coinbases are different from single tx payment outputs.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. zender  🛡‏ @zndtoshi Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @fnietom @NickSzabo4 and

          Bitcoin protocol is enforced by people that use and validate the bitcoins they receive. When you talk about a long period re-org, that's a man-made attack. I personally would refuse to follow that chain and pay fees only to the miners that work on the legacy chain.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @zndtoshi @fnietom and

          In other words, you would fork. Others wouldn't. The result would be a disaster encouraged by this soothing nonsense. To claim that this is a great way to secure large transactions, so don't worry rely on that 100,000 BTC you just received afte just a few confirms, is ludicrous.

          1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
        7. zender  🛡‏ @zndtoshi Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @fnietom and

          1. Yes this would mean a fork. But that would mean that economic actors (exchanges, companies, users) would have to decide which chain is the correct one and people would sell/buy the coins that are relevant for them as Bitcoin.

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        8. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Sep 8
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @zndtoshi @fnietom and

          It's a disaster, not a security protocol. And txs aren't just a theory any more, they are starting to happen. Are you really going to put Bitcoin's reliability on the line for the sake of soothing some ultra-whale? "Go ahead screw BTC with a big tx, we'll bail you out."

          1 reply 2 retweets 8 likes
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