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NickSzabo4's profile
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo  🔑
@NickSzabo4

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Nick Szabo  🔑

@NickSzabo4

Blockchain, cryptocurrency, and smart contracts pioneer. (RT/Fav/Follow does not imply endorsement). Blog: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com 

Joined June 2014

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    1. Lawrence H. White‏ @lawrencehwhite1 Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @GeorgeSelgin

      The people didn't. Indeed, the "pound sterling" was originally one pound weight of sterling silver (a specific alloy, 92.5% silver and 7.5% other metals to make it less soft).

      1 reply 1 retweet 15 likes
    2. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @lawrencehwhite1 @mathiasjimenez0 @GeorgeSelgin

      Also drachma, shekels, etc. Many of these units of weight were in use for standard weights of gold and silver jewelry long before introduction of coinage. See ee.g. https://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2016/12/weigh-and-deliver-compensation-and.html …

      1 reply 2 retweets 27 likes
    3. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @lawrencehwhite1 @GeorgeSelgin

      Neat article. So it seems all these names were just another way to call some specificed weight of a commodity, which does not settle the question for why they created these.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @NickSzabo4 and

      Maybe something related to divisibility? It seems less appealing to create one such unit if they used shells. Why would you create a unit called shells2 equivalent to 1.5 shells?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    5. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 25
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      Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @lawrencehwhite1 @GeorgeSelgin

      It was the quantity by weight of metal that was the money. The form of the metal was for transactional convenience and sometimes for display. Some pieces of jewelry were, like later coins, of standard weight, others could be cut in arbitrary places and weighed.

      1 reply 2 retweets 21 likes
    6. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 25
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      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @mathiasjimenez0 and

      Shells OTOH were typically counted and valued by size. Each size range had a different secure supply curve effectively forming a different denomination. The Yurok had ruler-like tattoos for measuring the length of their dentalia shells. https://unenumerated.blogspot.com/2017/02/conflict-and-collectibles-among-yurok_87.html …pic.twitter.com/Qy1JSAIxnx

      2 replies 18 retweets 42 likes
    7. Ragnar Lifthrasir  🏴  🏛️‏ @Ragnarly Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @mathiasjimenez0 and

      Shells > USD?

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @Ragnarly @mathiasjimenez0 and

      Alas, cheap transportation and industrial era tools greatly inflated them and often made counterfeiting easy. Validation lore wasn't up to that challenge; secure validation became too expensive.

      3 replies 1 retweet 17 likes
    9. Ragnar Lifthrasir  🏴  🏛️‏ @Ragnarly Jul 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @mathiasjimenez0 and

      I recently learned how seriously Isaac Newton took his position as warden of the Royal Mint.pic.twitter.com/ExBjpo2fLH

      5 replies 5 retweets 46 likes
    10. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 25
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      Replying to @Ragnarly @mathiasjimenez0 and

      20% of coins were already counterfeit by his day. He may have delayed the inevitable, but during the remainder of the 18th century, the problem only got worse, driven by craftsmen of Birmingham who also gave us much of the industrial revolution.

      2 replies 0 retweets 27 likes
      Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 25
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      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @Ragnarly and

      By the end of the 18th century merchants had mostly given up on high-value coins in favor of harder to counterfeit bank notes, moving away from trust minimization by substituting IOUs for the actual metal. A trust that in the 20th century would be heavily abused.

      1:58 PM - 25 Jul 2019
      • 9 Retweets
      • 41 Likes
      • Eric of Last Resort ⚡️ Luke Parker GITBTC Riding Unicorns to the Moon Chad Donald McIntyre ☣️🗑️ Lawrence H. White Tuur Demeester ⚡
      1 reply 9 retweets 41 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Fernando Nieto‏ @fnietom Jul 26
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          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @Ragnarly and

          I believe bullion friction (cost of weight and purity validation) lead to coinage. Counterfeiting was common at the time. This friction is frequently underestimated, but it pushed people away from trust-minimization to end up with trust-based paper money.https://www.academia.edu/4192184/A_Quantitative_Approach_to_the_Beginnings_of_Coinage …

          2 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
        3. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 26
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          Replying to @fnietom @NickSzabo4 and

          I do not see an essential difference between mints and banks in this sense. In both you need to trust third-party and potentially also transacting party depending on how easy was to counterfeit

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 26
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          Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @fnietom and

          The metal in coins can be validated. It's costly, not done at retail, but was often done by bankers and merchants. So people who dealt with coins on large and international scales could use coins in a trust-minimized way. But nobody can use bank notes in a trust-minimized way.

          1 reply 0 retweets 6 likes
        5. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 26
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @fnietom and

          I see. You mean that in principle you can validate a metal's weigth, but it is harder to asses what is backing a banknote? If one could know bank assets this problem would be at least partially solved?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        6. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Jul 26
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          Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @fnietom and

          If the assets are trust-minimized collateral (i.e. bank doesn't have the ability to just transfer them out). Otherwise, the audit just tells you that the funds have not been absconded with or withheld from creditors *yet* -- useful but much less trust-minimized than Lightning.

          2 replies 0 retweets 5 likes
        7. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 26
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @fnietom and

          Ok, so the essential difference is that with commodity money you *can* validate money quality with technology that doesn't rely on people, just physics. However, this technology is costly. Mints help reduce physical validation costs but now you need to validate *them* 1/2

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        8. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 26
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          Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @NickSzabo4 and

          As for the transacting party, they become a problem as long as one doesn't use the physical technology to validate. When this is the case, mints help reduce this problem but not altogether.

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        9. Mathias Jimenez‏ @mathiasjimenez0 Jul 26
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          Replying to @mathiasjimenez0 @NickSzabo4 and

          Finally from this perspective what banks do is to change the game by relying *only* on people since they choose the physical appearence of the banknotes, can unilaterally print more of them, and choose the assets to back these

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        10. End of conversation

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