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NickSzabo4's profile
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo 🔑
Nick Szabo  🔑
@NickSzabo4

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Nick Szabo  🔑

@NickSzabo4

Blockchain, cryptocurrency, and smart contracts pioneer. (RT/Fav/Follow does not imply endorsement). Blog: http://unenumerated.blogspot.com 

Joined June 2014

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    1. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @adam3us

      Non-fungible Bitgold is centralized in the same sense that stocks are centralized: sure there are thousat and thousands. But each one is a centralized system.

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @peterktodd @adam3us

      How so?

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @adam3us

      To avoid confusion, what do you think non-fungible Bitgold is?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Adam Back‏ @adam3us Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @peterktodd @NickSzabo4

      I think in the bit-gold model there was proposed to be a collectible market collecting up different scarcity stamps, into standard value bundles. those specialised dealers would not be so decentralised as a market function.

      1 reply 1 retweet 6 likes
    5. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @adam3us @NickSzabo4

      But concretely, what prevents double spends in that model?

      1 reply 1 retweet 0 likes
    6. Adam Back‏ @adam3us Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @peterktodd @NickSzabo4

      byzantine agreement between servers.

      1 reply 1 retweet 8 likes
    7. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @adam3us @NickSzabo4

      Right, which is centralized.

      1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
    8. Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @peterktodd @adam3us

      That's a preposterous way to describe its flaws. It is decentralized, but in a flawed way (vulnerable to Sybil attack) which Nakamoto greatly improved upon. In any case, it was the state of the art in secure decentralization in 1998, nobody knew how to do it any better.

      1 reply 3 retweets 43 likes
    9. Peter Todd‏ @peterktodd Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @NickSzabo4 @adam3us

      1998 simply didn't have decentralized consensus. There's no reason to sugar coat it - it just hadn't been invented.

      3 replies 1 retweet 5 likes
    10. Adam Back‏ @adam3us Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @peterktodd @NickSzabo4

      you have to start somewhere. if anything I think that's the biggest under appreciated path where projects stall where they could have succeeded: fear of the good enough vs hypothetical best. good enough can be improved, and a sort-of-functioning system aids further realisations.

      5 replies 3 retweets 26 likes
      Nick Szabo  🔑‏ @NickSzabo4 Feb 25
      • Report Tweet
      Replying to @adam3us @peterktodd

      Observe that there are high market cap cryptocurrencies today that are based on Sybil-vulnerable Byzantine consensus. I am certainly not recommending them over Bitcoin, but it is an approach that, while inferior to Nakamoto Consensus, is far better than nothing.

      8:27 AM - 25 Feb 2019
      • 6 Retweets
      • 23 Likes
      • 📈 Bull Flag Group 📈 Joshua J. Bouw MyCryptoDad Finance2Crypto Andrew Marks ⚡️ Ben Kaufman Љ Usman Abiola USD is a shitcoin 🇧🇷
      3 replies 6 retweets 23 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. bitcoinpasada ⚡‏ @bitcoinpasada Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @adam3us @peterktodd

          Can you please help me understand "Sybil-vulnerable Byzantine consensus"? What is the nature of the consensus if it's Sybil vulnerable? What kind of consensus can be had when you can't know if your peers are forged identities? What is the potential use case for such a network?

          2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Adam Back‏ @adam3us Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @bitcoinpasada @NickSzabo4 @peterktodd

          first you need to a defined set of participants. if that's automated it becomes sybil vulnerable, and then if the sybil attacker controls > 1/3 of nodes, it becomes an insecure agreement protocol.

          1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
        4. bitcoinpasada ⚡‏ @bitcoinpasada Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @adam3us @NickSzabo4 @peterktodd

          So it has to be manually peered, and then it would be okay in theory?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        5. Adam Back‏ @adam3us Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @bitcoinpasada @NickSzabo4 @peterktodd

          Lamport's Byzantine Generals Problem came with a solution and caveat that if the attacker controls > 1/3 of the nodes the honest players can't reach agreement. If there isn't a natural definition of who is a participant, you end up with sybil pretending to be many participants.

          2 replies 4 retweets 12 likes
        6. 3 more replies
        1. New conversation
        2. Joshua J. Bouw‏ @JoshuaJBouw Feb 25
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          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @adam3us @peterktodd

          Lots of the stuff coming out of MIT and researchers these days is that Nakamoto Consensus is actually pretty terrible. Thoughts?

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Adam Back‏ @adam3us Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JoshuaJBouw @NickSzabo4 @peterktodd

          It's academic. No one has succeeded to do anything to improve Bitcoin fundamental design yet.

          1 reply 2 retweets 20 likes
        4. Joshua J. Bouw‏ @JoshuaJBouw Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @adam3us @NickSzabo4 @peterktodd

          Personally, I did find Algorand a bit compelling, though PoS in nature. Matthiew Niemerg and others had been criticising Nakamoto Consensus, especially those that are trying to make a better BFT solution. However, of course, nothing has been proven to actually be better.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        5. Joshua J. Bouw‏ @JoshuaJBouw Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @JoshuaJBouw @adam3us and

          Mind you certainly not suggesting that something as silly as EOS or other projects is better.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        6. End of conversation
        1. John Pitts‏ @EquityDiamonds Feb 25
          • Report Tweet
          Replying to @NickSzabo4 @adam3us @peterktodd

          The REAL trillion dollar question: Y isn't difficulty adjustment an advanced form of Ponzi scheme which serves to artificially goose the price of bitcoin higher in a momentum short-squeezy kinda way? Would be #1 question for Satoshi.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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