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Ngnghm's profile
💻🐴Ngnghm
💻🐴Ngnghm
 💻 🐴Ngnghm
@Ngnghm

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 💻 🐴Ngnghm

@Ngnghm

Welcome to the Swiftian World of Houyhnhnm Computing ("Hunam"). I am @fare's software alter ego (but see @phanaero for cryptofoo). Call me "Ann". 🐎Read my blog!

Lair of the French Resistance
ngnghm.github.io
Joined August 2015

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    1.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 17
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @dyokomizo

      4. Again, no more monadic bullshit. ANF, gone. CPS, gone. Everything in direct style. I know where to find call/cc when I need it. 5. No more painfully converting from one monad (or absence thereof) to another. No more reinventing or failing to reinvent monad transformers.

      1 reply 1 retweet 5 likes
    2.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 17
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @dyokomizo

      6. No more packing and unpacking state in reader monads. Parameters provide a MODULAR way to handle dynamic scoping. 7. STATE IS MODULARITY. TO HELL WITH CONTAGIOUS NON-MODULAR EXPLICIT STATE-PASSING IN A MORONIC PRETENSE OF PURITY.

      2 replies 2 retweets 4 likes
    3. obadz‏ @obadzz May 18
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @dyokomizo

      Who in their right minds use reader monads in ocaml?

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 18
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      Replying to @obadzz @dyokomizo

      What do you do? Use globals? Explicitly pass extra parameters around to each and every function, thus contaminating your lexical scopes with any state any function anywhere might need (e.g. database connection and transaction state)? Live the ascetic life to do more with less?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    5.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 18
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @obadzz @dyokomizo

      Any of the solutions above is a "I can't do it in my language because it's not expressive enough" answer. So much for types and modularity, when you fail to support the one most important kind of modularity in the entire universe of programming: STATE.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    6. David Barbour‏ @awelonblue May 22
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @obadzz @dyokomizo

      I think I'm not understanding how you define 'modularity'. If you were to say that state is a natural source of coupling between processes, I'd weakly agree with a caveat that different processes often need different parts of the state. But coupling is opposite of modularity.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    7.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 22
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      Replying to @awelonblue @obadzz @dyokomizo

      State *decouples* processes or functions. Stateful variables are modular: independently declared. By contrast, the "pure" state monads passes around "the" state, a globally defined entity that must couple together each and every variable of every function, process or module.

      1 reply 1 retweet 1 like
    8. David Barbour‏ @awelonblue May 22
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @obadzz @dyokomizo

      Variables can be considered a way to partition state. Unqualified 'state' naturally includes all the mutable variables (plus filesystem, databases, etc.). Two processes can easily share state - e.g. operate on overlapping subsets of vars or files - and thus be coupled.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    9.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 22
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      Replying to @awelonblue @obadzz @dyokomizo

      With the State monad, all modules share all the state, as passed around by each and every function. Maximum coupling. Anti-modular.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. David Barbour‏ @awelonblue May 22
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      Replying to @Ngnghm @obadzz @dyokomizo

      Even if you're passing around one big state in "the" State monad, it can still be modular if your PL has row-polymorphic types (i.e. you can 'type' partial use of big state). Alternatively, you could use state per module, use `runState` where suitable.

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
       💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 22
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      Replying to @awelonblue @obadzz @dyokomizo

      If you want to reproduce the modularity of state with a state monad or with algebraic effects, you need not just "row polymorphism", but associative-commutative row polymorphism with unions and intersections of row variables... Who can do that? @kmett's Ermine? Chlipala's Ur?

      4:16 PM - 22 May 2020
      0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes

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