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Ngnghm's profile
💻🐴Ngnghm
💻🐴Ngnghm
 💻 🐴Ngnghm
@Ngnghm

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 💻 🐴Ngnghm

@Ngnghm

Welcome to the Swiftian World of Houyhnhnm Computing ("Hunam"). I am @fare's software alter ego (but see @phanaero for cryptofoo). Call me "Ann". 🐎Read my blog!

Lair of the French Resistance
ngnghm.github.io
Joined August 2015

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     💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 17
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    Porting some code from OCaml to Scheme, the amount of boilerplate that goes away is staggering. Of course, I am also losing a whole lot of safety and refactoring help. But this sure makes the cost visible.

    1:52 AM - 17 May 2020
    • 13 Retweets
    • 69 Likes
    • Rui T. R. Almeida Marek Bernát Vlad Kozin Deepak Angrula Sanchayan Maity Mario Sangiorgio Oliver Caldwell Basu HectorIP
    6 replies 13 retweets 69 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Daniel Yokomizo‏ @dyokomizo May 17
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        Replying to @Ngnghm

        Could you breakdown the types of boilerplate you're finding? IME most of it is from having generic (Hinze style) ways of handling datatypes instead of specific ones.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 17
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        Replying to @dyokomizo

        1. Gambit Scheme ports are so much nicer than the disparate and underpowered OCaml channels and buffers. 2. Type-descriptors and macros are so much nicer at generating I/O handlers than either manual typed combinators or ppx transformers. 3. All the monad cruft, gone.

        2 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
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      2. Agustin Lebron‏ @AgustinLebron3 May 17
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        Replying to @Ngnghm

        So you're trading off LOC for safety and maintainability (i.e refactoring help). Claim: if the final code size is >5 kLOC anyway then this is likely a bad tradeoff.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3.  💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm May 17
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        Replying to @AgustinLebron3

        What if I'm turning a >15 kLOC codebase into a <5 kLOC one by cutting the cruft? What if I'm working on adding proper types to Scheme, whereas adding proper macros to OCaml is hopeless?

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
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      1. '(Robert Smith)‏ @stylewarning May 17
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        Replying to @Ngnghm

        Would the same be the case from OCaml to Common Lisp do you think? Or does your Scheme still have an edge over CL?

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
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      1.  🌊  🇺🇸‏ @coreload May 17
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        Replying to @Ngnghm

        Good tests, of course. Also not always obvious: refactor *more* often, not less. Frequent, smaller changes.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. Mark Pitman‏ @markpitman May 17
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        Replying to @Ngnghm @paulg

        your a hero. the last time i looked at doing something with/in OCaml, i ran away to seek a different worthy windmill

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      1. New conversation
      2. MichÆl the Unwilling‏ @michaeljforster May 17
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        Replying to @Ngnghm

        Similar experience when I first wrote a system in OCaml and, later, rewrote in Erlang. (If Erlang were fully reflective, with an IDE to exploit that, i’d have had something approaching the refactoring capability of Smalltalk.)

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. MichÆl the Unwilling‏ @michaeljforster May 17
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        Replying to @michaeljforster @Ngnghm

        And it tickles/irks me that I now find myself writing in C# daily and wishing I could convince my team to move to F# for the same reason.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
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