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Ngnghm's profile
💻🐴Ngnghm
💻🐴Ngnghm
 💻 🐴Ngnghm
@Ngnghm

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 💻 🐴Ngnghm

@Ngnghm

Welcome to the Swiftian World of Houyhnhnm Computing ("Hunam"). I am @fare's software alter ego (but see @phanaero for cryptofoo). Call me "Ann". 🐎Read my blog!

Lair of the French Resistance
ngnghm.github.io
Joined August 2015

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    1. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      SlamData has an analytics engine written in functional Scala by expert-level functional programmers. It's a wonderful code base, but also one of many testaments to the complete failure of tagless-final to provide effect parametric reasoning. https://github.com/slamdata/quasar/search?q=Sync&unscoped_q=Sync …

      3 replies 6 retweets 38 likes
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    2. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      If expert functional programmers working in a supportive environment do not interact with semantic type classes, but instead work with "IO" disguised as "Sync", then there is zero chance purported benefits of tagless-final materialize in mainstream.

      1 reply 2 retweets 9 likes
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    3. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      Anyone remotely paying attention to how tagless-final is used in Scala will observe that: 1. Sync appears everywhere 2. Code is not more testable (due to 1) 3. Effects are embedded outside of effect constructors (In fact, 'catch in map/flatMap' is designed for 3.)

      2 replies 1 retweet 9 likes
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    4. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      Encouraging outsiders to 'tagless-final' is encouraging them to engage in mindless ceremony without understanding or benefit. These cargo-culted Sync code bases will be rejected and rewritten over time, & will push many from FP, because the 'Why?' cannot be answered.

      4 replies 6 retweets 19 likes
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    5. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      Even in Haskell, where the cost/benefit ratio of tagless-final is radically improved, most commercial developers do NOT create type classes to subset effects. In fact, some commercial firms I know have ripped out such code because the benefits were deemed insufficient (!).

      1 reply 1 retweet 18 likes
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    6. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      While I still contend tagless-final can be useful for library authors (for reasons unrelated to effect parametric reasoning or testability), it makes no sense for *most* teams doing application development. Basically... ...THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES. Someone had to say it.

      5 replies 3 retweets 30 likes
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    7. Dimitar Georgiev‏ @dgeorgiev_bg 15 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @jdegoes

      > disguised as Sync Most of the non-end-of-the-world code we write is in ApplicativeError/MonadError, mentioning just as a data point. Of course the biggest win is to design so that most stuff is at most in Either, or just Pure

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Dimitar Georgiev‏ @dgeorgiev_bg 15 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @dgeorgiev_bg @jdegoes

      The ceremony does buy you ability to write most of your code requiring just MonadError? Up to discipline, as you explained.

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    9. John A De Goes‏ @jdegoes 15 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @dgeorgiev_bg

      Once you go to Monad, you're already well beyond declarative programming.

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
       💻 🐴Ngnghm‏ @Ngnghm 16 Jun 2019
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      Replying to @jdegoes @dgeorgiev_bg

      "Once you go to Monad, you never go bad"?

      8:30 AM - 16 Jun 2019
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      • John A De Goes
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

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