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NYarvin's profile
Norman Yarvin
Norman Yarvin
Norman Yarvin
@NYarvin

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Norman Yarvin

@NYarvin

yarchive.net/blog
Joined April 2013

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    1. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Alex Stamos Retweeted Olivia Solon

      I’m really glad Olivia is covering NCII and looking at solutions. She was one of only a couple of journalists who covered the 2017 FB pilot from the perspective of victims (the other being @kateconger). Most of the media just enjoyed posting snarky hot takes.https://twitter.com/oliviasolon/status/1196422970127867905 …

      Alex Stamos added,

      Olivia SolonVerified account @oliviasolon
      Facebook was widely mocked in the press when it launched its 'send us your nudes' pilot to tackle revenge porn in 2017 but many victims welcomed the move as a tangible way to claw back control in a desperate situation. Here's what happened next https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/inside-facebook-s-efforts-stop-revenge-porn-it-spreads-n1083631 …
      Show this thread
      3 replies 20 retweets 101 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      This whole incident really soured my view of the tech press as not being educated or interested in the real problems, especially compared to the people I knew at FB who dedicated their careers to helping real people. Maybe my stereotype isn’t fair, but neither was the coverage.

      4 replies 7 retweets 48 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      Not sure I agree, there were good questions about why technical solutions that didn't require original pictures weren't explored, and the answers weren't very satisfying.

      1 reply 1 retweet 11 likes
    4. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      Have you or your employer made any headway on this issue in the last couple of years? Since you so helpfully shared your concerns on Twitter I would have hoped you could have tried one of those options in the meantime.

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      This is also the answer we got at the time, "Why don't you do it this way, so that people don't have to send your team their nudes?" "Why don't you do it for us?"...I think that's not a very satisfying answer 🤷🏻‍♂️

      1 reply 0 retweets 9 likes
    6. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      There are a bunch of complications that arise when you actually try to implement this kind of mass image blocking at scale. It is easy to throw stones from the sidelines; if you spent time actually working on the problem you would realize the compromises weren’t arbitrary.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    7. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      Let's hear them then, the only problem I've heard you talk about is that people don't want to publish their ImageDNA-like algorithm. There are solutions to that, use SGX or send tamperproof machines to trusted victim advocates to generate the hashes.

      1 reply 0 retweets 5 likes
    8. Alex Stamos‏Verified account @alexstamos 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso

      There has been some movement on the perpetual hashing front, as FB recently published new algorithms based upon more modern techniques that should be a bit more robust. The biggest problem is adversarial reporting to trigger image censorship.https://www.google.com/amp/s/about.fb.com/news/2019/08/open-source-photo-video-matching/amp/ …

      1 reply 1 retweet 7 likes
    9. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @alexstamos

      You already have the image at that point, so no additional sharing has happened. Using your solution, I can send you a picture that isn't a nude, and someone looks at it and sees that it's not a nude. Using this system, you wait for a match and then see it's not a nude. Right?

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    10. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 18 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos

      I'm really trying very hard to imagine how your system is harder to abuse, but I can't see it. With your system, a human has to look at every nude to verify it. With my system, they only have to look on match, when facebook already has it and abuse is 100% happening. 🤷🏻‍♂️

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      Norman Yarvin‏ @NYarvin 22 Nov 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @alexstamos

      One difference I can see: If people send you a hash and it matches a non-nude, you don't know whether it was an accidental hit or a hostile attempt at censoring the non-nude (in which case you can penalize them). If they send you the actual nude, you know it was accidental.

      2:23 PM - 22 Nov 2019
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Norman Yarvin‏ @NYarvin 22 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @NYarvin @taviso @alexstamos

          I'm sure Facebook doesn't like to talk about retaliation, but the ability to retaliate changes the whole dynamics of their interaction with users.

          1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        3. Norman Yarvin‏ @NYarvin 22 Nov 2019
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          Replying to @NYarvin @taviso @alexstamos

          Of course this assumes the "hash" matching is not only inexact in a technical sense (which it has to be to match images with minor alterations) but produces lots of false negatives and false positives. I bet that's the case, though; seems like a very hard problem to solve well.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
        4. End of conversation

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