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NYarvin's profile
Norman Yarvin
Norman Yarvin
Norman Yarvin
@NYarvin

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Norman Yarvin

@NYarvin

yarchive.net/blog
Joined April 2013

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    1. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 3 Feb 2019
      • Report Tweet
      • Report NetzDG Violation

      Dave dwizzzle Weston Retweeted Alex Ionescu

      Alex is right, i promise you if it made sense to do seccomp-bpf like things for Windows we would have done it by now. Windows is a different beast entirely. Hyper-v/WDAG containers are the best way we currently have to abstract away attack kernel surface.https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/1092263015699730437 …

      Dave dwizzzle Weston added,

      Alex Ionescu @aionescu
      Replying to @gsuberland @tiraniddo
      How would it even be usable by 3rd party developers? Do you know which win32k system calls your app needs/doesn't need, accross each OS build number?
      1 reply 3 retweets 29 likes
      Show this thread
    2. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 3 Feb 2019
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      The real question is when are we going to give HV containers to app developers and when can we get enough density and perf. I believe in @mamyun ;)

      1 reply 0 retweets 8 likes
      Show this thread
    3. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 3 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @mamyun

      I don't see why it couldn't work, seccomp-bpf doesn't require you to be a libc developer. I think HV containers solve a different problem.

      2 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    4. Mehmet Iyigun‏ @mamyun 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @dwizzzleMSFT

      NT/win32k syscalls are more or less abstracted from the public API. So, exposing syscall filtering at that level would be fragile as we update Windows and as apps evolve. It needs to be exposed at a higher level. We're investigating...

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    5. Dave dwizzzle Weston‏ @dwizzzleMSFT 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @mamyun @taviso

      It’s worse than that. You have NtUserMessageCall and the like which have dozens or hundreds of sub functions based on message type. Many APIs generate implicit messages. Blocking at the entry point level is way to coarse to get comparable security value to seccomp

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    6. Tavis Ormandy‏Verified account @taviso 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @dwizzzleMSFT @mamyun

      That's just plain not true Dave, it sounds like you think seccomp-bpf is just filtering based on syscall number. The "bpf" part means that there is a little turing complete program that can examine parameters, such as class or message type, and decide an action.

      4 replies 1 retweet 8 likes
      Norman Yarvin‏ @NYarvin 4 Feb 2019
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      Replying to @taviso @dwizzzleMSFT @mamyun

      Not that it affects your argument, but BPF isn't Turing complete. BPF programs have to be guaranteed to terminate, which rules out Turing completeness.https://lwn.net/Articles/773605/ …

      10:12 PM - 4 Feb 2019
      • 1 Like
      • Tavis Ormandy
      0 replies 0 retweets 1 like

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