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NGrossman81's profile
Nicholas Grossman
Nicholas Grossman
Nicholas Grossman
@NGrossman81

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Nicholas Grossman

@NGrossman81

International Relations prof at U. Illinois. Senior Editor @ArcDigi. Author “Drones and Terrorism.” Politics, national security, and occasional nerdery.

amazon.com/Drones-Terrori…
Joined April 2015

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    1. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 22 Nov 2017

      TO AMERICANS WHO OPPOSED THE TPP FROM THE LEFT: The 11 other countries are moving forward, but scrapped labor and environmental protections the US got them to include. Once again, you compared reality to imagined perfection rather than probable alternatives.

      310 replies 5,082 retweets 12,193 likes
    2. Lorene Lake‏ @LakeLorene 23 Nov 2017
      Replying to @NGrossman81

      Thing is, a good % of them opposed it to protect WC jobs. I wonder how this situation affects jobs.

      4 replies 1 retweet 6 likes
    3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 23 Nov 2017
      Replying to @LakeLorene

      The most likely effect was neutral or slightly positive for jobs in the aggregate. Some factories would've moved, but US companies would've gotten more customers, and the costs of consumer goods and manufacturing inputs would've gone down. Some people lose jobs, others gain jobs.

      6 replies 7 retweets 120 likes
      Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 23 Nov 2017
      Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

      87% of manufacturing job loss in the US over the last two decades has been due to automation, not trade. Some industries see jobs move due to trade, but it's better to help those people than sacrifice everything else in the hope of saving jobs that robots will do soon anyway.

      12:02 PM - 23 Nov 2017
      • 72 Retweets
      • 326 Likes
      • Ken Warnock SS7019 Derek Stewart Spoopy Fish Taco 🏳️‍🌈 twist Daniel Francis 🍩 Resisting Bitch Face💙🌊 Jane  🚔the Scammer🚔 Sanders🥀🌊🥀🍩🌊🥀 Equal Oprtunty Cynic
      14 replies 72 retweets 326 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. SS7019‏ @sharmila819 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Well said. The distinction between automation & trade is what people fail to understand.

          3 replies 5 retweets 89 likes
        3. Realist Left‏ @realistleft 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @sharmila819 @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Yes, let's ignore the $600-$700 billion annual manufacturing trade deficit, and blame the robots. Or ignore that we had the same number of manufacturing jobs in 1971 that we had in 2000 (17.2 million). automation shedding 4.8 million manufacturing jobs is a dangerous myth.

          1 reply 2 retweets 7 likes
        4. Celeste‏ @celestewhite 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @realistleft @sharmila819 and

          So what did shed 4.8m manufacturing jobs?

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
        5. Realist Left‏ @realistleft 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @celestewhite @sharmila819 and

          The trade deficit in manufactured goods, and then the collapse in demand following the 2001 and 2007-09 recessions.http://www.epi.org/publication/manufacturing-job-loss-trade-not-productivity-is-the-culprit/ …

          1 reply 1 retweet 4 likes
        6. Celeste‏ @celestewhite 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @realistleft

          Thanks!

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        7. End of conversation
        1. New conversation
        2. MJR jnr‏ @onetruebritt 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          That's BS... I absolutely friggin defy you to go to any WalMart or Target and place in a single cart all the products that are made overseas because of automation... the real reasons: cheap labor, lax compliance, environmental sacrifice etc

          1 reply 2 retweets 2 likes
        3. 1 more reply
        1. New conversation
        2. Richard (RJ) Eskow‏Verified account @rjeskow 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Even if those figures are correct -- and not everyone agrees -- that's roughly 600,000 jobs that need not have been lost. The time could have been used to plan for future displacement.

          1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
        3. 1 more reply
        1. (((David Shor)))‏ @davidshor 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          I'm personally pretty skeptical you can distangle the two very cleanly with global supply chains

          0 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
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        1. Ryan Patterson‏ @2annihilation 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Bullshit. Even if true, bullshit. What was the cause of loss of manufacturing before the last 2 decades? "It's automation" is what neoliberals tell themselves so they feel better about their complicity in the global exploitation of working people.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. chris9059‏ @chris9059 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          We had automation in manufacturing prior to 2000 but still managed to manitain a consistent 17-18 million manufacturing jobs for the prior 30 years. The sharp decline occurred only w China's accession to the WTO.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1.  💋 🌱𝕄𝕚𝕔𝕙𝕚𝔻𝕖𝕤𝕦 🍓 🐇‏ @michicachan999 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Vox: "Why the rise of robots won't mean the end of work" https://youtu.be/TUmyygCMMGA  Interesting video on topic.

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. John Moser‏ @structuralecon 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          It's notable that making e.g. cotton trousers in the US would make Americans poorer and diminish the number of American jobs in total—although we'd have more pants manufacturing jobs (maybe). It's not as simple as "Job X is no longer available, so there are fewer jobs".

          0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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        1. kevinpmiller‏ @kevinpmiller 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          There's this mythology about these agreements that they are "Fair.' Before the WTO, we had #GATT. Was it not fair? Did GATT benefit FAIR trade? Yes—some are protectionist. Some are reactionaries. But don't make the mistake of lumping all "Left" in the same pot. We are not stupid.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. kevinpmiller‏ @kevinpmiller 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Using that logic—why, then, does Ford move a plant to Mexico/South America etc—to make 'automation' cheaper? 'FreeTrade' favors shareholders—not middle class workers; favors Big Ag/Food, not family/local farms; genuflects before Big Pharma—and stifles alternatives, to name a few.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. AlphaSquid‏ @alpha_squid 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          I agree it's better to help these people, but that doesn't seem to really happen. So far, anyways.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. CzechPanther‏ @SolnarJ 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          That’s an interesting statistic. Do you have a source of this info? I’d like to learn more about it. Thx

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. Brad Markell‏ @DetroitGearhead 24 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Bullshit. One low quality paper quoted over and over. Find another cite.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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        1. John Drake‏ @TheRealNumber6 23 Nov 2017
          Replying to @NGrossman81 @LakeLorene

          Having trouble accepting this at face value when virtually everything I touch says "made in (not here)". Source?

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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