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NGrossman81's profile
Nicholas Grossman
Nicholas Grossman
Nicholas Grossman
@NGrossman81

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Nicholas Grossman

@NGrossman81

International Relations prof at U. Illinois. Senior Editor @ArcDigi. Author “Drones and Terrorism.” Politics, national security, and occasional nerdery.

amazon.com/Drones-Terrori…
Joined April 2015

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    Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Oct 12

    Nicholas Grossman Retweeted The Economist

    Gay couple vs. religious baker a dilemma because two rights come into conflict. Equal treatment vs. free expression/religion. This is probably the best place to draw the line "We don't serve your kind here" = discrimination "Must write 'Support Gay Marriage'" = forced expressionhttps://twitter.com/TheEconomist/status/1050709627229392897 …

    Nicholas Grossman added,

    The EconomistVerified account @TheEconomist
    The Christian bakers declined an order for a cake that would have displayed the words "Support Gay Marriage" https://econ.st/2CDATif 
    6:29 AM - 12 Oct 2018
    • 13 Retweets
    • 31 Likes
    • brad Evil Donnina (according to POTUS) Travis View ThisWeekInStupidPhD virgin matos Micah Coffee Trish Kruger Thomas juste un é-BOO-diant
    7 replies 13 retweets 31 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Tito Hernandez‏ @comrade_tito Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        “We don’t serve your kind here” is a little disingenuous, no? More accurate to say “I won’t write that.”

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Oct 12
        Replying to @comrade_tito

        "We don't serve your kind here" refers to bakers who won't sell to a gay couple the same cake they'd sell to a straight couple. Demanding that they write a political statement is asking for something custom, not standard, and therefore fits "I won't write that."

        2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      4. Tito Hernandez‏ @comrade_tito Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Agreed, there are those who refuse any service. But, doesn’t appear to be the case in this instance: “They insisted that they were more than happy to provide Mr Lee with any other service; but the particular message which this client requested was one they would have refused...”

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      5. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Oct 12
        Replying to @comrade_tito

        That's why I said this is a good place to draw the line.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      6. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Mic Fuckabee‏ @micfuckabee Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        What about a Kinko’s employee that refused to print pro-marriage flyers, as an analogous example? Seems like the same thing to me. People need to grow up and do their damn jobs

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Oct 12
        Replying to @micfuckabee

        I don’t think that example fits free expression. Meaning, baking a cake is arguably artistic, while feeding in the paper and pressing print is not. Maybe. Others may disagree. I think they should serve everyone. But when the state should force them to is a tough question.

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      4. Mic Fuckabee‏ @micfuckabee Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        It is a hard question especially as the lines between automation and artistry are ever blurrier (I think they literally do print things on cakes now). I tend to think it’s the employee’s duty to quit if they can’t morally comply; no one would expect a strict Muslim to bartend...

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. Lewis‏ @DerAmiDerReist Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        You don’t have a right to equal treatment by individuals, only equal treatment by the government.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. JanetM‏ @Cilvrnum Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81 @MalcolmCameron7

        Learn the elements required to form a legally binding contract. One essential is intention without which they is no contract. It means no one is bound to sell or trade with the other party; its their choice and one which is often not realised.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. MikeTheObserver‏ @MikeObserver Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81 @varadmehta

        Mozilla effectively terminated Brendan Eich because he refused to recant his support for Prop 8 (banned SSM in CA) That looks to me like saying “we don’t employ your kind here” If that’s allowed, then why isn’t “we don’t serve your kind here”?

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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      1. craigsuperstar‏ @craigsuperstar Oct 12
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Both parts are silly. Frosting art is trivial, and no-one actually suffers without it. The question should be whether the government can compel action for trivial reasons.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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