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NGrossman81's profile
Nicholas Grossman
Nicholas Grossman
Nicholas Grossman
@NGrossman81

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Nicholas Grossman

@NGrossman81

International Relations prof at U. Illinois. Senior Editor @ArcDigi. Author “Drones and Terrorism.” Politics, national security, and occasional nerdery.

amazon.com/Drones-Terrori…
Joined April 2015

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    Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15

    Nicholas Grossman Retweeted Glenn Greenwald

    Glenn Greenwald takes a break from apologizing for Russian info operations to misuse data and claim no sexism in tennis. Men getting more penalties could mean no sexism in punishment. Or it could mean men commit more infractions. Reflexive contrarianism leads in odd directions.https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/1040933668708069376 …

    Nicholas Grossman added,

    Glenn GreenwaldVerified account @ggreenwald
    2/ Now, NYT just released a study of the actual data: contrary to that narrative, male tennis players are punished at far greater rates for misbehavior, especially the ones relevant to that controversy: verbal abuse, obscenity, and unsportsmanlike conduct https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/14/sports/tennis-fines-men-women.html … pic.twitter.com/4PTHFJ1PAn
    Show this thread
    5:17 AM - 15 Sep 2018 from Niagara Falls, NY
    • 5 Retweets
    • 23 Likes
    • Not Spooky AT ALL ... Knock it off David Lanson Andrew Howard RSA1RSA r smith Chad Sound Out Loud Jimmy Wholebody, MPH Chauncey Sam
    9 replies 5 retweets 23 likes
      1. New conversation
      2. Troublesome Frog‏ @TroublesomeF Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Clouding it further, men play longer matches at majors, creating about 50% more opportunities for infractions to be called.

        2 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15
        Replying to @TroublesomeF

        Good point

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. Benjamin Stephenson‏ @Pathdom Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        How in the world is this a misuse of data? The available data don't support the conclusion of biased enforcement.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15
        Replying to @Pathdom

        Because Greenwald declares the data proves no sexism when it doesn’t. Note, I didn’t say the data proves sexism either.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. Benjamin Stephenson‏ @Pathdom Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        He explicitly says the opposite of that in the next tweet.

        0 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. A B‏ @19651029ab Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Your formulation leaves two options: either male tennis players misbehave more or male tennis umpires misbehave more. Do you see what you just did?

        1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15
        Replying to @19651029ab

        I didn’t say anything about the gender of umpires.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. A B‏ @19651029ab Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Yes, I see. Ok.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. My medicine is strong‏ @theasefountain Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Not really. It proves that men don’t “get away” with infractions as the more hysterical supporters of Serena claim.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15
        Replying to @theasefountain

        Maybe yes, maybe no. The metric that would answer that question is the ratio of infractions to punishment. Punishments on their own don’t tell us much.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. My medicine is strong‏ @theasefountain Sep 16
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        True, but the much higher number of punishments given to men (3:1) seriously undermines the claim that women are treated more harshly. Also women routinely get smaller sentences for the same crimes so tennis would have to be doing something very unusual to punish women more.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. craigsuperstar‏ @craigsuperstar Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        So your conclusion of sexism is based on your theory that men and women behave differently?

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15
        Replying to @craigsuperstar

        I didn’t conclude sexism. I criticized misuse of data.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. craigsuperstar‏ @craigsuperstar Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        But I think, given the entirety of gg's thread, he was pointing out that the narrative, "men don't get called out for this behavior" was grossly wrong.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. End of conversation
      1. New conversation
      2. John-Paul Pagano‏ @johnpaulpagano Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Also the characteristic—“I strongly imply it is false—but nothing I’m saying actually falsifies what I’m criticizing...” carveout. Always creates lawyerly room for himself to squirm.

        1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
      3. Nicholas Grossman‏ @NGrossman81 Sep 15
        Replying to @johnpaulpagano

        That perfectly fits some of the responses I got.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      4. John-Paul Pagano‏ @johnpaulpagano Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        He’s been using that tergiversation for years. He lifted it, like many patterns and tics, from Chomsky.

        1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
      5. John-Paul Pagano‏ @johnpaulpagano Sep 15
        Replying to @johnpaulpagano @NGrossman81

        And as with both Chomsky and Greenwald, their admirers follow suit.

        0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
      6. End of conversation
      1. Daniel Greco‏ @ProgPilgrim Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Yeah, nothing like evidence to get in the way of a good narrative.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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      1. maryann‏ @maryannmom Sep 15
        Replying to @NGrossman81

        Played tennis for years, was a huge fan back in the day, but stopped watching after McEnroe made a match with Borg last for days, and the girl who scream-grunted with every point.

        0 replies 0 retweets 1 like
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