3/ left civil libertarians throw out these "sympathy credentials": * he's black * he's a student * she's a mother of 3 * she's unarmed None of these matter. Was a crime committed, Y/N ?
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4/ And refusing to stop is important. I am hugely, vehemently anti-cop...but I will concede that it is a legitimate API that if we have a state and we have cops, then if a cop commands you to stop on suspicion of a crime, you have to.
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5/ Force must be proportional. We've all seen that video where a guy is listening to earbuds, a cop commands him to stop, he doesn't hear, so the cop murders him from behind.
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6/ But in the scenario: * cop has plausible reason to suspect a crime has been committed * cop commands suspect to stop * suspect does not stop * cop grabs suspect by arm or shoulder * suspect resists * cop uses more force (throws to ground) ...I see nothing wrong.
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ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Todd Barrett
7/ Absolutely. And you've got to be prepared with the script "am I being detained? What specific articulable fact gives you reason to suspect I committed a crime? Am I free to go?"https://twitter.com/thepiclord/status/994585424734629888 …
ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,
Todd Barrett @thepiclordReplying to @MorlockPI would add the caveat that often a cop will order someone to stop because they feel like it and *then use a person's failure to stop as their suspicion of a crime.* "I asked him to stop because he *looked* suspicious, but when he took off running I KNEW he was up to something."1 reply 1 retweet 8 likesShow this thread -
8/ When you ask "am I being detained?" if they answer "no", you respond "I'm leaving. Good bye." If they reuse to answer an ask you questions, alternate between "Am I being detained?" and "I don't answer questions without a lawyer present".
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ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Todd Barrett
9/ True. But I'd rather not be tackled, have my rotator cuffs torn as my arms are wrenched behind my back, and then "win" in court later. I'd prefer to stop and ask "am I being detained?"https://twitter.com/thepiclord/status/994586026189434881 …
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Todd Barrett @thepiclordReplying to @thepiclord @MorlockPCourts generally don't allow Officers to 'bootstrap' their suspicions of a crime when a citizen does something that, taken alone, is completely legal (i.e. you can walk away if they aren't 'detaining' you so running away is, likewise, legal). Smart to run? No. Legal? Yes.2 replies 2 retweets 7 likesShow this thread -
10/ To recap: victim is a white guy in a tux? don't care victim is a black guy in a tux? don't care victim is white guy in a wife-beater? don't care victim is black guy in a wife-beater? don't care All I care is if force is reasonable given suspected crime and resistance
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ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted VictoryRed
11/ I agree with the right to resist unreasonable arrest, but (a) you'll probably end up dead if you try it, (b) if you don't, you'll probably end up in jail (maybe for life), (c) every example I gave was of REASONABLE arrest (even if wrong).https://twitter.com/FreddyMagnus/status/994635085214203906 …
ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,
VictoryRed @FreddyMagnusReplying to @MorlockPI used to feel this way until I learned that the right to resist unreasonable arrest—even with force—was well recognized at common law. If that’s a hard pill to swallow today, it’s only because the police have become “too big to fail” (i.e., too dangerous to confront).3 replies 1 retweet 3 likesShow this thread -
Replying to @MorlockP
I agree that pedestrians should have the right of way; doesn't mean it's smart to step out in front of a moving vehicle.
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