Man who married into the Kennedy clan agrees w the Dems that Jan 6th was a neo-Nazi insurrection / attempted coup, and also just happens to agree w the CIA color revolution in Ukraine is good. Really makes you think. I'm certainly reconsidering my priors.https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762 …
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5/ Hmm
@neontaster tweeted at me caustically about my "it's complicated" stance, immediately deleted the tweet, unfollowed me, and then tweeted thispic.twitter.com/KUaDFWEIzN
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6/ I'm not exactly sure how pointing out that * Ahnold is part of the Establishment, both by marriage and maneuvering * Ahnold is anti Trump / anti Jan 6 * Ahnold perfectly echoes all of the Cathedral talking points re the new hot war is "morose" It's cynical, sure, but morose?
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7/
@neontaster is a smart guy, and I always liked interacting w him on twitter, but he's very sympathetic to the neocon / perpetual war party. https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1216035571732271105.html …pic.twitter.com/pruFEkg2ug
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9/ I apologize to one and all for "moralizing threads". I realize now that it was a mistake to think about US foreign policy through a moral lens.pic.twitter.com/NLO0uSwXid
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11/ If thinking about US foreign policy through a moral lens is wrong ... what's the right approach? I suspect that Noam actually does agree that US foreign policy should be moral, he just didn't like my stance that the Ukraine question is complicated, and >>>
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12/ we and the Ukranians are on the better of the two sides, but do not have entirely clean hands. The US choice-architected Russia into this war in the exact same way that FDR fanned the flames of Japanese expansion and made Pearl Harbor inevitable.
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13/ As Ahnold said in the video, it's ok to admit when a government behaves poorly. US government has behaved not just poorly (in a moral sense) but stupidly, in a strategic sense, by trying to push alliances so close to Russia. Foreign policy experts on our side warned re this
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14/ This is an ad hominem re Michael Tracy,
@neontaster. Michael could be Hitler himself, but his point re your think tank work and connection to neocon world is either true or false. Which is it? True, of course. If it was false, you're say so. https://twitter.com/neontaster/status/1504448117378371591 …This Tweet is unavailable.Show this thread -
15/ Star Wars is good entertainment. I saw it in the theater as a kid, and watched it a dozen times since. Good vs evil, no nuance, brave overmatched rebels ... great drama. ...but the real world is usually more complicated. If the foreign policy establishment tells you >>>
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16/ that some particular fight between East Bumistan and West Bumistan is a fight between pure good and pure evil, orphans and plucky working mothers on the one side, and stormtroopers on the other side ... don't trust that. That's propoganda.
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17/ Your tweet was "This guy is so oblivious that he thinks an evenhanded point is to cite the guy who doxed me". You may be factually correct that MT doxed you...but your "rebuttal" to my point that you worked for a neocon think tank is an ad hominem https://twitter.com/neontaster/status/1504448938790764551 …
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18/ If you didn't work at a neocon think tank, say so. If you're not related to a famous neocon (not a taint by blood, but suggestive of household culture, family loyalties, etc.) say so. Saying "TJIC cites MT for the source of this claim and MT is bad" is >>>
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19/ either an ad hominem vs Michael Tracy, or the genetic fallacy, perhaps, because my data comes from a source you dislike.
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20/ ok, this is an actual rebuttal, and my it shows that my claim was somewhere between "not useful" and "flat out wrong". I retract it and apologize to you
@neontaster . https://twitter.com/neontaster/status/1504450491287224327 …This Tweet is unavailable.Show this thread -
21/ anyway, I continue to think that
@neontaster is a fine person and I enjoyed being mutuals with him. I have no particular fight there.Show this thread -
22/ I did google it, Noam. I google pretty close to absolutely everything before I state it in a twitter thread. (or, rather, used Brave search engine). If there's some hit on the first page of results that would have clarified, I didn't see it. >>> https://twitter.com/neontaster/status/1504451113420046340 …
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23/ In my attempting to verify the information - BEFORE POSTING - I also googled for your name with "site: hudson institute", looked at linkedin, etc. I make mistakes all the time, but usually not ones out of laziness. I retract when corrected.
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24/ Anyway,
@neontaster and I are cool now. We both got hot under the collar.Show this thread -
25/ A term that a socialist Michael Harrington coined in 1973 to refer to Democrats who were pro-war is "anti-semitic" ? Even if your claim was true (a) again, genetic fallacy, (b) I don't care. I refuse to stop using useful terms bc someone is upset.https://twitter.com/Gatoraid20/status/1504456833980903425 …
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26/ > How about actually explaining what is wrong with interventionism? * it costs US dollars * it costs US lives * it's not our right * the USG does not have the legal authority to do with without a declaration of war
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27/ Have you volunteered to go fight the Russians in Ukraine,
@Gatoraid20 ? If not, maybe stop trying to spend other people's dollars and lives in something you don't apparently care THAT much about.Show this thread -
28/ > Would you have not intervened in WW2 to stop the Holocaust? First, the US did not intervene in WW2 to stop the Holocaust. Second, the Nazis, while absolutely terrible, did not architect the Holocaust qua the Holocaust until after US blockades, etc. Without US >>>
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29/ involvement it is plausible that the antisemitic and murderous Nazis would have done something else like the original plan to relocate populations to Madagascar. Retconning WWII into "US intervened to stop the Holocaust" is lazy and propogandistic. Actual rhetoric >>>
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30/ at the time was off in the direction of "OMG OMG OMG the secret German plan to invade the US through Mexico!!!".
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31/ Always remember that war is the health of the state.
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32/ no, I entirely get that it's a bad thing. I'm just saying that it's also a COMPLICATED thing, where the US foreign policy establishment worked hard, over a decade, to push Putin into a lose/lose horns-of-a-dilemma where if he does nothing >>>https://twitter.com/derail33462704/status/1504456207192498184 …
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33/ Ukraine slides into the NATO / EU / American orbit, and if he does something, then Ukranians and Russian conscripts die, and he looks terrible on the international stage.
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34/ In law, you can't claim self defense in a fight that you've initiated or escalated. I'm pointing out that perhaps we should use a similar moral principle - not to argue that Ukranians shouldn't defend themselves (they should!) - but to argue that this situation was CREATED
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