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MorlockP's profile
ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs
ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs
ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs
@MorlockP

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ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs

@MorlockP

Two-time Prometheus award-winning hard science fiction author. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005JPPMS6  Learn how to homestead https://www.amazon.com/dp/B093BC3K1T 

Aristillus Crater, Luna
amazon.com/dp/B005JPPMS6
Joined June 2012

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    1. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      45/ bad: hoon - a core core - battery + payload battery - left arm of core payload - sample + context sample - left arm of payload context - right arm of payload Note also that the definitions in the Hoon docs confuse two different things: concept and implementation

      1 reply 0 retweets 31 likes
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    2. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      46/ Explaining concepts is useful. Explaining implementation is useful. But they are distinct things, and the explanation of the two things should be kept separate. If a conversation is about the hot water heater and where in the house it's located, the context >>>

      1 reply 1 retweet 30 likes
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    3. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      47/ of the question "wait, it's in the basement? What's a 'basement' ?" wants an answer "a utility space located inside a house" and NOT "formed from cinderblocks with mortar binding". Both are useful, but, again, they need to be segregated.

      2 replies 1 retweet 36 likes
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    4. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      48/ So anyway, once I finally made the break through to understand Hoon ... it really wasn't remotely that complicated. It had like 1 new concept, and 30 new words for old concepts ... and there was absolutely no reason that I could not have understood it all in 4 hours.

      3 replies 3 retweets 39 likes
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    5. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      49/ And so basically a month of my life, and a huge amount of anxiety (bc I was doing contract work, and felt guilty and dumb for not getting up to speed ASAP) was caused by ... intentionally terrible docs. I'm still angry, now that I think about it again.

      3 replies 2 retweets 58 likes
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    6. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted ROGUEWEALTH  📯

      50/ Because of the intentionally obfuscated / actively harmful docs, I can't recommend it. If the docs were not malevolent, I'd say "maybe, yes, to enjoy stretching your brain a bit". There's no ROI in the marketplace.https://twitter.com/ROGUEWEALTH/status/1502322704426455044 …

      ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

      ROGUEWEALTH  📯 @ROGUEWEALTH
      Replying to @MorlockP
      Does it make sense to consider this a viable project to learn?
      2 replies 0 retweets 38 likes
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    7. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      51/ So, that was a lot of negative. On some positive (about the Hoon language): I do find a bunch of the experiments that Curtis did to be quite interesting, and there is a sort of artistic cohesiveness and simpleness to it that I appreciate. With good docs, I'd like it!

      1 reply 0 retweets 32 likes
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    8. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      52/ Nock is an interesting experiment in a minimal virtual machine, and I respect it for what it is. Hoon, OTOH, is a terrible language. There's the old quote "it is original and good...but what is original is not good, and what is good is not original." There's some of that

      1 reply 0 retweets 38 likes
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    9. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      53/ Every other programming language in the word uses keywords like "if", "then", "else", "try", "catch", etc. if you see code like if a==1 then print "equal" else print "unequal" end even a non-coder can figure this out.

      1 reply 0 retweets 26 likes
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    10. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      54/ Hoon does not use keywords. It uses an innovation - every thing that would be a keyword in a standard language is a "rune" (a two character sequence).

      3 replies 0 retweets 24 likes
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      ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

      55/ where standard languages would use GetType(0x12) Hoon uses !>(0x12) prounced "zaggar"...because there's a special pronunciation guide for runes.

      8:50 AM - 11 Mar 2022
      • 29 Likes
      • Sarah Constantin General Hammond JDangerously Alea Iacta Est JMo Covfefe Anon E. Darwin Hartshorn ⳩ 🦬 SuperIronBob
      3 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          56/ so the "reserved keywords" of Hoon include things like =+ =< =/ =. =: ?: ?. ?+ ?& etc Reading code is just a vast pile of these runes.pic.twitter.com/pLPYFggJZI

          3 replies 0 retweets 26 likes
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        3. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          57/ Here's an example of some (pretty clean, very readable) Hoon https://github.com/urbit/urbit/blob/41ce22d6ae18678f9979f7ab5bef54f5c65fb6e7/pkg/arvo/sys/vane/gall.hoon …pic.twitter.com/V1zmeazjp1

          4 replies 2 retweets 27 likes
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        4. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          58/ Note how a lot of effort has gone into naming things so that all of the variable names h̵e̵l̵p̵ ̵c̵o̵n̵v̵e̵y̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵i̵r̵ ̵p̵u̵r̵p̵o̵s̵e̵s̵ are four letters long. call load scry take list skip move unit slog apps

          2 replies 0 retweets 37 likes
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        5. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Prince-philosopher Coinaday  🤴 🧐

          59/https://twitter.com/coinaday1/status/1502328422961451014 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Prince-philosopher Coinaday  🤴 🧐 @coinaday1
          Thanks. My eyes are bleeding. https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/1502327972598067207 …
          1 reply 0 retweets 30 likes
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        6. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Fredösphere

          60/ Curtis is exceedingly smart, and is intellectually playful in both shape rotation and wordcelling. ...and that's awesome. ...but his ideas about "elegant" and "fun" and "better" have made Hoon 50x harder to learn than it needs to be.https://twitter.com/Fredosphere/status/1502328439289876486 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Fredösphere @Fredosphere
          Replying to @MorlockP
          Sounds like it's designed for programmers with phenomenal memories but who never learned to touch type
          3 replies 1 retweet 44 likes
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        7. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted

          61/ https://twitter.com/CensoredJeff/status/1502328866479775745 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          This Tweet is unavailable.
          1 reply 0 retweets 19 likes
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        8. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          62/ So, on the topic of "hate", Roissy said that the opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. I am angry at Hoon, not bc it means nothing to me, but because I WANT to love it, and I feel spurned. I tried hard to master it, and ... was 50% defeated by the docs.

          3 replies 0 retweets 41 likes
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        9. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          63/ ...and once I realized JUST HOW SIMPLE IT IS, I got very very angry. I hadn't been banging my head on understanding some deep mystery of the universe which is intrinsically hard - I had been banging my head on malevolent documentation designed to keep people out.

          6 replies 2 retweets 56 likes
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        10. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          64/ I didn't say "it surprised me". I said "it made me angry".pic.twitter.com/JpQDJBgpX6

          1 reply 0 retweets 24 likes
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        11. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Eric Richards

          65/ Yeah, I was actually making notes for a Ruby-like language that could run in a written-in-Hoon interpretter.https://twitter.com/EricRichards22/status/1502334066166800385 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Eric Richards @EricRichards22
          Replying to @MorlockP
          I'm imagining that somebody could build a C-like to Hoon transpiler?
          3 replies 0 retweets 25 likes
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        12. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Erik

          66/ That's great to hear that it's enjoyable! I last banged my head on Hoon ~3 years ago and I'd love to hear that the documentation & pedagogy has improved.https://twitter.com/pharkarpas/status/1502331332722053126 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Erik @pharkarpas
          Replying to @MorlockP
          I'm taking Hoon School at the moment. It's very enjoyable. However, I'd love for you to write a guide to Hoon, or at least on some of the most useful concepts!
          1 reply 1 retweet 26 likes
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        13. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          67/ Yeah, I was soooo demoralized when I was trying to learn Hoon and nothing clicked...but then I realized that I'd ask questions - reasonable questions - and the answers were circular Once I got it, and wrote it up in decent documentation, folks could learn key bits instantlypic.twitter.com/1HqYLsLa8L

          1 reply 0 retweets 31 likes
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        14. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Philip Monk

          68/ Phillip, the fact that I have data of something like n=15, where I explained Hoon core concepts in simple English and people GOT IT, IMMEDIATELY whereas they had tried and failed using Curtis / Tlon docs, is evidence that I'm right. >>>https://twitter.com/pcmonk/status/1502347516724973570 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Philip Monk @pcmonk
          A problem with people in general is they assume that everyone is always talking to them in their current state, and to the degree that it's hard to understand, it's either incompetent or malicious. https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/1502316829133479938 …
          Show this thread
          2 replies 0 retweets 31 likes
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        15. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          69/ Also @pcmonk, would you care to address my claims that TWO documentation people quit Tlon bc they were trying to write accessible docs, and they weren't allowed to? And my further claim that I received terribly negative feedback from cyg for my attempt at the same?

          2 replies 0 retweets 20 likes
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        16. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          70/ bc my three factual claims * 2 doc writers quit * my n=15 experiment helped people a lot * cyg shit on this ☝ attempt if true (and they are) go pretty far towards proving "it doesn't need to be this hard; Tlon's approach was incompetent and/or malicious".

          3 replies 0 retweets 18 likes
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        17. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Fenton Wood

          71/https://twitter.com/WoodFenton/status/1502347647692115971 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Fenton Wood @WoodFenton
          I used to wonder why a tech company (Tlon) was named for a terrifying Borges story about a constructed world & language with its own mind-bending logic. Funny you should ask... https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/1502278405391331332 …
          1 reply 1 retweet 27 likes
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        18. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Philip Monk

          72/ 100% agreed. Curtis thought that docs written "his way" were best, and disagreed vehemently when folks tried to write docs that explained urbit concepts using existing terms for very very very similar concepts. This, I assert, was incompetent / badhttps://twitter.com/pcmonk/status/1502352677371478019 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Philip Monk @pcmonk
          Can't speak for those people, but lots of people have quit for various reasons, including creative differences (on both docs and code). The problem was not that Curtis didn't want docs to be accessible; they disagreed about what made them accessible. https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/1502348341446914049 …
          Show this thread
          2 replies 1 retweet 20 likes
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        19. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted D.J. Schreffler

          73/ To be clear, I do not claim that CURTIS thinks gatekeeping is good. Curtis wants Urbit to be accessible to everyone, and has said [ in docs, I think ] that Urbit and Hoon are so simple that gradeschoolers can / should learn to program, using his pedagogic approach.https://twitter.com/DJSchreffler/status/1502353510456872962 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          D.J. Schreffler @DJSchreffler
          Replying to @MorlockP
          And going back to the beginning, Curtis/Tlon thinks that this cognitive gatekeeping is a good thing. https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/1502348077075767298 …
          1 reply 0 retweets 19 likes
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        20. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          74/ I have heard two insiders - neither of them Curtis - say that high walls are good because they keep out normies. Curtis, in fairness, wants everyone to use Urbit / Hoon. ...and that's cool! Proper evangelical spirit !

          2 replies 0 retweets 20 likes
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        21. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          75/ And, again, my frustration w Hoon is not evidence that I think it's boring or bad or that I don't care - it's that I think it's good and interesting, but the community / company have unnecessary and bad self-sabotaging habits.

          1 reply 0 retweets 23 likes
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        22. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted Philip Monk

          76/ There is a third option: explaining concepts in a method other than cyclical definitions, keeping concept explanations and implementation details distinct, avoiding self indulgent side rants, using English keywords...https://twitter.com/pcmonk/status/1502354415079989250 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          Philip Monk @pcmonk
          FWIW I agree that Curtis is bad at writing docs. But "write docs like a normal software project" is also bad, and more dangerous for being harder to see. https://twitter.com/MorlockP/status/1502353254398758927 …
          Show this thread
          2 replies 1 retweet 24 likes
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        23. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          77/ Curtis is like the Confederacy: he can achieve secession, and all he has to do is keep his nature in check. ...but the Scots Irish needed a glorious attack on Fort Sumter, and Curtis needed to write docs like a slam poet.

          1 reply 0 retweets 28 likes
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        24. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs Retweeted potion seller, as seen in WIRED

          78/ YES!!!!!!! EXACTLY THIS!!!!!!!! Hoon is very very similar to lisp, just with absolutely terrible keywords, an absolutely terrible formatting (two distinct format types, actually!), absolutely terrible variable norms (two, actually!).https://twitter.com/kingdweeb_/status/1502354895147454467 …

          ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs added,

          potion seller, as seen in WIRED @kingdweeb_
          Replying to @MorlockP
          When I did a brief deep dive into Urbit I noticed how similar Hoon was to Lisp deep down (as a functional language built around closures), I feel like if it were just a Lisp dialect or if there were a Lisp->Hoon transpiler it'd be 1,000x more legible and enjoyable
          2 replies 0 retweets 29 likes
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        25. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          79/ so, here are some parts of Urbit that I think are good or at least interesting: * the virtual machine * the address system (galaxies, stars, etc.) * the cryptographic network between them

          1 reply 0 retweets 24 likes
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        26. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          80/ The terrible parts are all in Hoon: * runes * 'tall' and 'wide' code formatting * 'lapidary' (1 letter) var and 'normal' (4 letter) var names * malicious / incompetent documentation

          2 replies 0 retweets 23 likes
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        27. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          81/ What I'd like to see is * a decent language (lisp like, if you like prefix operators and parents, or Ruby like, if you like chaining postfix operators) written in Hoon, and then Hoon sealed off and abandoned forever and ever * decent docs

          2 replies 0 retweets 23 likes
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        28. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          82/ * a lack of official position on formatting code. Let a thousand flowers bloom. * a lack of official position on naming variables. * a lack of official position on what pedagogical techniques are best. Let the market decide!

          1 reply 0 retweets 21 likes
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        29. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          83/ One problem with geniuses is that they have opinions on EVERYTHING. A second problem is that that they can't distinguish "this is actually better than all that came before" from "actually I just have a PERSONAL preference for X over Y". Curtis trying to mandate style >

          1 reply 2 retweets 25 likes
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        30. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          84/ and variable names, and blah blah blah blah is an example of him elevating preference to dogma. (and enforcing some of them via the parsing of lines in the interpreter / console) The good thing about lack of standards (i.e. freedom) is people can make themselves at home.

          2 replies 0 retweets 19 likes
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        31. ⓘ Dogs don't have thumbs‏ @MorlockP Mar 11

          85/ You might be the world's best structural engineer / architect, and come up w a way that's 100x better to build homes ... but maybe consider that letting people pick their own paint and carpets instead of dictating the "best" choices might increase adoption ?

          4 replies 0 retweets 27 likes
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