it really annoys me that determinism means the concept of free will couldn't *not* exist, even if it's completely incoherent
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I say "if it's completely incoherent" versus "even though it's completely incoherent" because the concept of free will doesn't make any sense to me in the first place
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Replying to @sonyasupposedly
How do you have Christianity if you don't have free will? God cares about the robots as they slide along their fixed tracks?
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Replying to @MorlockP
I don't know, honestly! but I still don't get free will. I don't get what it even means for a will to be free
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Replying to @sonyasupposedly @MorlockP
like if the universe is as deterministic as it seems to be, where's the free part? I think *choice* exists, decisions do, certainly. but what does it mean for them to be free — unconstrained? but then how would you choose? very puzzling
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Replying to @sonyasupposedly @MorlockP
How are you thinking about “choice” and “deterministic”? My guess is that most people would see a contradiction here. i.e., you don’t actually *have* a choice if the option you choose was already determined as your choice before you chose it.
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choice is: you have multiple options, you go for one of them due to preferences. works with determinism, the trouble is that you don't choose your preferences, or rather to the extent that you can, it's dependent on unchosen abilities and preexisting preferences
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Replying to @sonyasupposedly @rob_mose
Where does this assumption of determinism come from? That seems like an unexamined axiom ... and one that has polluted Less Wrong predecessor circles since 3 generations before Yud was born.
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Replying to @MorlockP @sonyasupposedly
The observation of lawful behavior in nature, aided with the metaphors of clocks and billiard balls?
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Billiards as a metaphor is entirely unsupported. It went out the window in March 1926.
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Replying to @MorlockP @sonyasupposedly
Definitely. And it was untenable even in the late 19th century due to the problem of action at a distance. But I think these metaphors play a very large role in making the assumption you’re asking about seem natural.
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