this is a fight I get into with Browning Machine. He's an ADHD extrovert and loves Glorious Freedom Noise, so revving jet ski engines, stereos pounding so loud that people at other farms can hear him, the thrill of doing 120 on roads with 40 mph speed limits are all great >>>
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
when I criticize him for, say, the jetski noise, he says "but in this community EVERYONE loves jetski noises!" ...and then tells a story 15 minutes later about how some neighbor was yelling at him for making too much noise. so, apparently, no, everyone doesn't but then >>>
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
his stance shifted to "well, OK, these are the norms here, and if people don't like it, they should move". ...and then he came up to HUN, rented a sports car, and violated the speed limit by 3x, and when I called him on it he said that (a) people in New England are pussies
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
(b) the fact that he might kill some other child or make them an orphan at probability 'p' is a chance that he's willingf to take. SO GENEROUS OF HIM !!!
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
so apparently the standard is * when he's in a community where people like jetskis and loud noises, those are just community norms * when he's in a community that doesn't like 105 in a 40 zone, then those norms are bad and better ones should prevail
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
and getting back to the jetski sound itself, one person doing one thing can pollute an entire bay with the noise. It's 99.99% externality. And there's no data on who does and does not like it. Hear four jetskis? well obviously AT LEAST 4 people like it.
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
The quiet people don't register. It's the seen and the unseen. So we've constructed a mechanism with no property rights and a mechanism that amplifies the voices of defectors. Get 2 or 3 (or even just 1) grandmother, and, well, the ENTIRE restaurant sounds like loud grandmothr
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
and your EXACT PROPOSAL was "don't like it? go somewhere else" BUT THEN YOU ARGUED THAT EVERY PLACE IN THAT PRICE TIER GETS TO CONVERGE ON YOUR NORMS so you're doing the jetski thing - the only way to live on the water and not hear jetskis is be a billionaire and own the lake
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Replying to @MorlockP @random_eddie
an appreciation of the fact that norms differ and this is a tricky problem, as opposed to "anyone who doesn't like the sound of jetskis and screaming grandmothers obviously hates joy and SHOULD BE DRIVEN OUT OF EVERY PUBLIC PLACE" would be good
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Replying to @MorlockP
I appreciate the fact that norms differ. (Was that not clear?) I also appreciate that this is a tricky problem.
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it was not clear the only think I heard was: * if you want the norms that prevail 95% of the time, spend 3x as much money and don't go to 90% of the restaurants * the reason norms differ is some assholes hate children
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Replying to @MorlockP
Sorry for leaving that impression. Yes, it's tricky. You've had many threads about the issue in the past, grappling towards some resolution. I have a thought here, but it's not a very happy one.
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Replying to @random_eddie @MorlockP
(Set aside for the moment whether the OP's case actually represents differing norms between you and I - I think there's too much ambiguity to know) +
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