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If technology disappeared in a @JohnBarnesSF Directive 51 scenario, or a Dies the Fires scenario, etc., we'd have slavery - under some name - back in < 5 years.
It's important to realize that technology changes, but human nature doesn't.
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Replying to @MorlockP
As you and I have oft argued out, my take subtracts a few words: Technology changes human nature (and vice versa). The human drive to push other people around takes very different forms as the median of the population moves up the Maslow scale.
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Replying to @JohnBarnesSF
I think that human NATURE doesn't change, but the EXPRESSION of that nature changes. We agree, I think, on two human drives: laziness (labor saving machines / slaves scratch the itch) and power lust ( small tribes warring vs electoral politics). yes ? or do we disagree ?
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Replying to @MorlockP
I think the boundary between "human nature" and "customs of the time and place" is so fuzzy that it is undisentanglable. Is laziness a psychological need or is it just the N-player prisoner's dilemma? Is power lust the inner killer monkey or the Dark Forest?
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Replying to @JohnBarnesSF
> so fuzzy that it is undisentanglable.
will ponder this
> Is laziness a psychological need
I'd argue that it's the result of evolution in a resource-constrained universe. Lazy entities survive and maybe reproduce ; Un-lazy entities fritter away calories and starve.2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @MorlockP
Or the un-lazy entities capture the calories from the lazy, and let them do the starving. "The rain falls both upon the just And likewise on the unjust fella But more upon the just, because The unjust steals the just's umbrella."
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Replying to @JohnBarnesSF
> Or the un-lazy entities capture the calories from the lazy, and let them do the starving. well, right, this is close to my argument about why slavery exists
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Replying to @MorlockP
It's also close to what Marx and Engels and Kautsky were talking about with "surplus value" and "alienated labor." (Though many Marxists fail to see a point Marx made early: the greater the distance through which labor is alienated, the larger the surplus becomes)
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Replying to @JohnBarnesSF
also, I hypothesis (but might be wrong) that you're pushing back against the "human nature includes powerlust and laziness at an immutable, probably biological level" because it's anthithetical to desirable political goals - but I'd point to
@amendlocke 's "The True Knowledge" !1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes -
Replying to @MorlockP @amendlocke
But it's not antithetical to the goals of controlling, channeling, or mitigating it. People do steal, lie, and cheat, but it's a reasonable political goal to disincentivize all of that and socialize the young away from it.
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damn you, just when I thought I was out! ok, yes, I ENTIRELY AGREE that the goal of governance is to disincentivize anti-social behavior (which may involve socializing people in pro-social ways). that's true regardless of the genes / environment mix!
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