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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. Catherine Olsson‏ @catherineols 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Got it, this is interesting to me, that it feels again like the difference actually comes down to the "one trick" in the methods, rather than the "one criterion". Believing there *exists* a best tool is one thing, versus that you *can find* one if you just Follow These Rules.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      The belief that “there MUST exist a best tool, even though we have no idea what it is” seems like an emotionally-appealing religious certainty to me, rather than an empirically-grounded pragmatic attitude.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    3. Catherine Olsson‏ @catherineols 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Well, I again just meant a situational best: as a logical consequence of modeling yourself as having EV, it follows that there are higher and lower EV tools for any given situation.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      OK, I don’t think we have a disagreement there… What I would want to see next would be a discussion of “when is it useful to model a situation with EVs” & “what are some good ways of assigning EVs, and how do I pick one here.” That would be a thoroughly meta-rational account :)

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    5. Catherine Olsson‏ @catherineols 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      I think you'd like CFAR :) It's a big injection of anti-nihilism (Yes, you prefer some outcomes over others! Yes, some tools are more useful for many situations! Yes, YOU can find better ones!), and a pile of example tools with recommendations for when they're useful.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Yes; as I said, my impression is that the LW-derived community has gone well beyond “rationalism” as it is classically defined, and incorporates significant elements of meta-rationality, and I am enthusiastic and supportive of that!

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols and

      It would be helpful, I think, if the LW-derived community understood more clearly that “rationalism” isn’t something they invented and own, but has been around for centuries, and is thoroughly worked-out in various other intellectual communities: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ …

      3 replies 0 retweets 2 likes
    8. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols @PereGrimmer

      Rationalists are very aware of “rationalism” as a different body of thought from ours that frustratingly has a similar name. I know it’s confusing & I’m sorry! But blame decision science, not us - they chose to use the word rational for utility maximization, & we followed suit

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    9. Derek. JUST "Derek. JUST "Derek. JUST "Derek. JUST‏ @PereGrimmer 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @Meaningness @catherineols

      "they used a name we disagree with, then we chose to use that same name" might not be the paradigm case for "blame [x] [not]... us"

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    10. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @PereGrimmer @Meaningness @catherineols

      Idk, if we had invented a new name for a concept that already exists in decision science I feel like ppl would be griping about that too.

      1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @PereGrimmer @catherineols

      Yes, some people (like me) will always find something to complain about :) Is your conception of “rationality” in fact restricted to that of decision science? My impression is that the community has a broader sense of it (but individuals vary, and yours may be more specific).

      9:41 PM - 7 May 2018
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        2. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 7 May 2018
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          Replying to @Meaningness @PereGrimmer @catherineols

          You might find this 2009 LW post by @ESYudkowsky "What do we mean by rationality?" to be useful:https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/RcZCwxFiZzE6X7nsv/what-do-we-mean-by-rationality …

          1 reply 0 retweets 4 likes
        3. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 7 May 2018
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          Replying to @juliagalef @Meaningness and

          I never asked Eliezer directly but assume he must have gotten those definitions from the decision science literature (which includes parts of economics, philosophy, psychology and comp sci relevant to modeling normative decision making) bc that's how that literature uses the word

          1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
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