Hmm. Often when I explain meta-rationalism, rationalists say “well, there must exist a guaranteed-optimal way of selecting which rational method to use.” That’s rationalism, under my definition, and not meta-rationalism. 1/2
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Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols and
“Meta-rationalism” isn’t an ideal term, for exactly this reason…. I’m bundling recognition of nebulosity into the definition. It’s a pretty complex idea that takes more than a paragraph to get across. 2/2
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Got it, this is interesting to me, that it feels again like the difference actually comes down to the "one trick" in the methods, rather than the "one criterion". Believing there *exists* a best tool is one thing, versus that you *can find* one if you just Follow These Rules.
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The belief that “there MUST exist a best tool, even though we have no idea what it is” seems like an emotionally-appealing religious certainty to me, rather than an empirically-grounded pragmatic attitude.
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Well, I again just meant a situational best: as a logical consequence of modeling yourself as having EV, it follows that there are higher and lower EV tools for any given situation.
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OK, I don’t think we have a disagreement there… What I would want to see next would be a discussion of “when is it useful to model a situation with EVs” & “what are some good ways of assigning EVs, and how do I pick one here.” That would be a thoroughly meta-rational account :)
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I think you'd like CFAR :) It's a big injection of anti-nihilism (Yes, you prefer some outcomes over others! Yes, some tools are more useful for many situations! Yes, YOU can find better ones!), and a pile of example tools with recommendations for when they're useful.
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Yes; as I said, my impression is that the LW-derived community has gone well beyond “rationalism” as it is classically defined, and incorporates significant elements of meta-rationality, and I am enthusiastic and supportive of that!
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Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols and
It would be helpful, I think, if the LW-derived community understood more clearly that “rationalism” isn’t something they invented and own, but has been around for centuries, and is thoroughly worked-out in various other intellectual communities: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ …
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Rationalists are very aware of “rationalism” as a different body of thought from ours that frustratingly has a similar name. I know it’s confusing & I’m sorry! But blame decision science, not us - they chose to use the word rational for utility maximization, & we followed suit
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Right… there’s actually many, many different things termed “rationalism.” My definition is an attempt to capture the general gestalt or family resemblance of the class… but inevitably for many it doesn’t fit very well.
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Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef and
Ultimately the commonality is maybe more an aesthetic orientation than any specific content.
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