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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Hmm. Often when I explain meta-rationalism, rationalists say “well, there must exist a guaranteed-optimal way of selecting which rational method to use.” That’s rationalism, under my definition, and not meta-rationalism. 1/2

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    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols and

      “Meta-rationalism” isn’t an ideal term, for exactly this reason…. I’m bundling recognition of nebulosity into the definition. It’s a pretty complex idea that takes more than a paragraph to get across. 2/2

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    3. Catherine Olsson‏ @catherineols 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Got it, this is interesting to me, that it feels again like the difference actually comes down to the "one trick" in the methods, rather than the "one criterion". Believing there *exists* a best tool is one thing, versus that you *can find* one if you just Follow These Rules.

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    4. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      The belief that “there MUST exist a best tool, even though we have no idea what it is” seems like an emotionally-appealing religious certainty to me, rather than an empirically-grounded pragmatic attitude.

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    5. Catherine Olsson‏ @catherineols 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Well, I again just meant a situational best: as a logical consequence of modeling yourself as having EV, it follows that there are higher and lower EV tools for any given situation.

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    6. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      OK, I don’t think we have a disagreement there… What I would want to see next would be a discussion of “when is it useful to model a situation with EVs” & “what are some good ways of assigning EVs, and how do I pick one here.” That would be a thoroughly meta-rational account :)

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    7. Catherine Olsson‏ @catherineols 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      I think you'd like CFAR :) It's a big injection of anti-nihilism (Yes, you prefer some outcomes over others! Yes, some tools are more useful for many situations! Yes, YOU can find better ones!), and a pile of example tools with recommendations for when they're useful.

      1 reply 0 retweets 1 like
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @catherineols @juliagalef @PereGrimmer

      Yes; as I said, my impression is that the LW-derived community has gone well beyond “rationalism” as it is classically defined, and incorporates significant elements of meta-rationality, and I am enthusiastic and supportive of that!

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    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols and

      It would be helpful, I think, if the LW-derived community understood more clearly that “rationalism” isn’t something they invented and own, but has been around for centuries, and is thoroughly worked-out in various other intellectual communities: https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/rationalism-empiricism/ …

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    10. Julia Galef‏Verified account @juliagalef 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @Meaningness @catherineols @PereGrimmer

      Rationalists are very aware of “rationalism” as a different body of thought from ours that frustratingly has a similar name. I know it’s confusing & I’m sorry! But blame decision science, not us - they chose to use the word rational for utility maximization, & we followed suit

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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      Replying to @juliagalef @catherineols @PereGrimmer

      Right… there’s actually many, many different things termed “rationalism.” My definition is an attempt to capture the general gestalt or family resemblance of the class… but inevitably for many it doesn’t fit very well.

      9:19 PM - 7 May 2018
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        1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness 7 May 2018
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          Replying to @Meaningness @juliagalef and

          Ultimately the commonality is maybe more an aesthetic orientation than any specific content.

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