Maybe this idea about “entanglement” and “mutual information” could focus the criticism a bit? This seems to underpin Yudkowsky’s general conception of representation.pic.twitter.com/i0uqS3McCh
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Maybe this idea about “entanglement” and “mutual information” could focus the criticism a bit? This seems to underpin Yudkowsky’s general conception of representation.pic.twitter.com/i0uqS3McCh
I only vaguely know this particular post, but 3 years ago I got the idea that EY had a coherent story on representation and I just had to work out what it was. so god help me I ended up reading a pile of sequences posts, Arbital pages and ancient pdfs...
... I was motivated by the fact that sometimes (as in your screenshot) he shows an understanding that representation should ground out in interaction somewhere. But exactly how he wants that to work is hugely contradictory across his writing, and sometime flat out absent...
Never wrote it up properly (and I'd write it differently now anyway) but here are some rough notes, tl;dr it's a mess https://drossbucket.com/newsletters/march-2018/ … I never got to the mutual information stuff, which would only add to the mess :)
y/n? 1. The LessWrong/etc. account of symbols/concepts/reality doesn’t say where the concepts/ontology come from. 2. Where the concepts/ontology come from is the only hard or interesting part. [...] N. Therefore, the LW account is not just wrong but completely wrong and also bad.
Yep basically agree with 1 and 2 - figuring out axes for your clusterspace is the hard part. Dunno about completely wrong but certainly very limited if it has little to say about the hard part!
Ok. And/but it seems that people are having at least the experience of getting tremendous *epistemological*-feeling *usefulness* out of being exposed to the map/territory distinction, and I think we need an explanation for that? Seems more than any-port-in-storm or sociological.
My theory (explained upthread) is that this does genuinely dramatically simplify, and thereby clarify, your thinking.
Unfortunately, it does that only by making most of the complexity of real-world representation invisible. Which means you are frequently wrong, and don’t have the necessary tools to debug when your wrongness collides with reality.
If not too socially awkward, do you have a sense of where LW’ers get stuck on real-world problems? Speaking extremely generally, where “they” are not “rigid” (to my mind) their Qs & As for many real-world topics seem very good. “Explicit abstract contradictions” seems wrong crit.
Yeah, sorry, I’m not going to go there for that, socially awkward
Ok. I think the conversation might be conflating conceptually confused, locally effective, and globally effective. Thank you for engaging above.
I think there may be something missing about actual LW’er cognition-in-the-wild versus what they write or say. (Assuming an imagined straw LW’er...)
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