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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      I think this is semi-deliberate: they found that thinking in terms of “maps” instead of “representations” clarified their thinking considerably, so they went with it. Indeed, it does make the story much more precise & tractable, at the cost of making it much more wrong.

      1 reply 1 retweet 10 likes
    2. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      The essay undermines this by pointing out the even literal maps don’t work anything like the way LW uses the word. There’s tons of nebulosity in there, not just uncertainty or imprecision. (But less nebulosity than with most representations)

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    3. Jake Orthwein‏ @JakeOrthwein May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      Maybe this idea about “entanglement” and “mutual information” could focus the criticism a bit? This seems to underpin Yudkowsky’s general conception of representation.pic.twitter.com/i0uqS3McCh

      2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
    4. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket May 6
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      Replying to @JakeOrthwein @Meaningness and

      I only vaguely know this particular post, but 3 years ago I got the idea that EY had a coherent story on representation and I just had to work out what it was. so god help me I ended up reading a pile of sequences posts, Arbital pages and ancient pdfs...

      1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes
    5. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket May 6
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      Replying to @drossbucket @JakeOrthwein and

      ... I was motivated by the fact that sometimes (as in your screenshot) he shows an understanding that representation should ground out in interaction somewhere. But exactly how he wants that to work is hugely contradictory across his writing, and sometime flat out absent...

      3 replies 0 retweets 6 likes
    6. Sarah Constantin‏ @s_r_constantin May 6
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      Replying to @drossbucket @JakeOrthwein and

      this is interesting, but does one need to have an account of how exactly representation works in order to say "the map is not the territory" (i.e. particular representations can fail to be useful or accurate)?

      2 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 6
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      Replying to @s_r_constantin @drossbucket and

      The problem is that the map metaphor is (deliberately?) misleading when taken as a prototype for representation in general. The ways that maps fail are dissimilar to, and much simpler than, the ways most other representations fail (when they do).

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 6
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      Replying to @Meaningness @s_r_constantin and

      If you think about maps instead of representations-in-general, suddenly your thinking becomes much clearer, and you feel that you’ve understood something and now have a superior epistemology, whereas exactly the opposite is the case.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
    9. Mark ( 🧘 🧪 🧙‍♂️ 💩 ❤️)‏ @meditationstuff May 6
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      Replying to @Meaningness @s_r_constantin and

      How fixed would it be if they somehow extended the metaphor and explicitly talked about cartography/mapmaking? They would have to taboo most or all pre-given ontology including bits, yes? What would they be allowed to start with?

      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
    10. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 6
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      Replying to @meditationstuff @s_r_constantin and

      Well, there’s two problems. One is that actual maps don’t work like the simplistic rationalist account of representations. The other is that maps are highly atypical as real-world representations.

      1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 6
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      Replying to @Meaningness @meditationstuff and

      An accurate account of maps would be interesting/useful if you are interested in maps. I expect cartographers know a fair amount about that.

      10:06 AM - 6 May 2020
      1 reply 0 retweets 0 likes
        1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 6
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          Replying to @Meaningness @meditationstuff and

          I don’t think it would tell you much about any other sort of representation, although maybe some of it would extend to the most similar ones, like architectural blueprints maybe.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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