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Meaningness's profile
David Chapman
David Chapman
David Chapman
@Meaningness

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David Chapman

@Meaningness

Better ways of thinking, feeling, and acting—around problems of meaning and meaninglessness; self and society; ethics, purpose, and value.

meaningness.com/about-my-sites
Joined September 2010

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    1. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @meditationstuff and

      Somewhat tangentially, I’ve been working on-and-off on a post that says “I don’t understand the map-vs-territory distinction” for about five years now. I’ve failed to finish it because I don’t even understand what I don’t understand… It’s been “nearly done” that whole time tho

      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
    2. Mark ( 🧘 🧪 🧙‍♂️ 💩 ❤️)‏ @meditationstuff May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @JakeOrthwein and

      It seems like some people seemingly intuitively understand it (e.g. LessWrong, general semantics) and some people seemingly understand it but think it's contradictory @aphercotropist.

      3 replies 0 retweets 3 likes
    3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @meditationstuff @JakeOrthwein and

      Well fwiw the point of the essay is that the LW take is seriously misleading and close to the root of how they misunderstand everything.

      2 replies 0 retweets 14 likes
    4. Ḟreyjạ‏ @utotranslucence May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @meditationstuff and

      +1 would read this post

      1 reply 0 retweets 20 likes
    5. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @utotranslucence @meditationstuff and

      It’s closer to the front of the queue than most of the 475258 unfinished bits! Tx for feedback; helps me prioy

      2 replies 0 retweets 11 likes
    6. Lucy Keer‏ @drossbucket May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @utotranslucence and

      I'm some combination of another '+1 would read this post' and 'oh god I wasted so much time trying to understand what LW meant by that 3 years ago and never want to think about it again, but would still read this post' :)

      2 replies 0 retweets 8 likes
    7. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @drossbucket @utotranslucence and

      Our intermittent emails about it have been very helpful or very unhelpful depending partly on whether I ever finish it

      2 replies 0 retweets 4 likes
    8. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      Current framing: the representation/reality relationship is the CENTRAL and unsolvable problem for rationalism. Maps are highly atypical representations: the relationship is much simpler than most.

      2 replies 0 retweets 15 likes
    9. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      LW uses “map” instead of “representation” in order make it seem like the relationship is straightforward *in general*. That hides the central problem on which the whole story founders.

      1 reply 0 retweets 13 likes
    10. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      I think this is semi-deliberate: they found that thinking in terms of “maps” instead of “representations” clarified their thinking considerably, so they went with it. Indeed, it does make the story much more precise & tractable, at the cost of making it much more wrong.

      1 reply 1 retweet 10 likes
      David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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      Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

      The essay undermines this by pointing out the even literal maps don’t work anything like the way LW uses the word. There’s tons of nebulosity in there, not just uncertainty or imprecision. (But less nebulosity than with most representations)

      12:17 PM - 5 May 2020
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      • Meekaale Brockman ds9 se01ep10 move along home defender Rival Voices ❁ R.P. Henk Sjaak Vasya Nathan Spears Lucy Keer Ḟreyjạ
      2 replies 0 retweets 12 likes
        1. New conversation
        2. Jake Orthwein‏ @JakeOrthwein May 5
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          Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

          Maybe this idea about “entanglement” and “mutual information” could focus the criticism a bit? This seems to underpin Yudkowsky’s general conception of representation.pic.twitter.com/i0uqS3McCh

          2 replies 0 retweets 1 like
        3. David Chapman‏ @Meaningness May 5
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          Replying to @JakeOrthwein @drossbucket and

          I don’t think he has a coherent theory. He’s got a swirl of bits of theory-stuff he picked up from reading cogsci unsystematically, and hasn’t realized they are mutually contradictory and can’t be assembled into a workable overall account.

          1 reply 0 retweets 2 likes
        4. 3 more replies
        1. Levi Herrera‏ @LeviHerrera4 May 6
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          Replying to @Meaningness @drossbucket and

          Ohh, I would really like to read this post on map / territory. Cosign.

          0 replies 0 retweets 0 likes
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