Yes, since the sutra-vs-tantra distinction is difficult enough for beginners, I avoid talking about all the within-tantra distinctions. The purificatory yanas are another whole different thing, although emically counted as tantra. They don’t seem useful in (post)modernity.
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I’m describing “tantra” more-or-less from the view of anuyoga (which appears on the rigpawiki chart). That corresponds roughly to “nondual tantra” in some other Tibetan systems. https://vividness.live/2012/04/28/the-power-of-an-attitude/ …pic.twitter.com/FcuSZfNVCt
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Huh! Ok, so... is that why Bodhisattva "vows" don't quite make sense in tantra? Because instead of saying, "I vow to keep trying for the impossible" it's like... get on with it? (I'm reminded of Alan Watts saying, "Oh, come off it, Shiva!")
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Right! Although it's more that the vows are understood differently: as "I vow to maintain awareness that I am always already a fully-enlightened Buddha, and THEREFORE have benevolent intent, and the power to actualize it." https://vividness.live/2015/11/27/emptiness-form-and-dzogchen-ethics/ …pic.twitter.com/a41RSjes77
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Replying to @Meaningness @SarahAMcManus and
Putting my cards on the table: I'm a tantrika & dzokchenpa...and I don't think the excerpted paragraph below is really fair to many many Mahayana practitioners I know. (Zen people, all of them.) I don't see them tripping over themselves about sunyata. They get it
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Replying to @Timber_22 @SarahAMcManus and
Zen and Dzogchen have significant historical connections and mutual influence. And Zen is explicitly not altogether Sutrayana https://vividness.live/2013/12/12/emptiness-zen-tantra-dzogchen/ …pic.twitter.com/gOyRnYgl8K
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Replying to @Meaningness @Timber_22 and
Sam van Schaik is the go-to guy on this if interested:https://www.amazon.com/Tibetan-Zen-Discovering-Lost-Tradition-ebook/dp/B015P5BEYA/ …
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Replying to @Meaningness @Timber_22 and
The term “Mahayana” is used in many muddled ways; whether Zen should be included is ambiguous https://vividness.live/2013/11/25/yanas-are-not-buddhist-sects/ …pic.twitter.com/6jrwJQQEHl
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Replying to @Meaningness @SarahAMcManus and
No, we don't get to make that call. Zen practitioners do. Most [not all] are unequivocal about who they are: they're Mahayanists. They take the bodhisattva vow
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Replying to @Timber_22 @Meaningness and
I suppose from the viewpoint of Williamson there's an interesting case to be made, etically, but ask your average (or above average) Zen person if they're actually a Mahayana practitioner and they might go looking for a staff to bop you on the forehead with
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Sure; and there’s lots of people who say they are Christians who nearly all Christians would say aren’t, because they believe things opposed to what most Christians believe, and so on.
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Replying to @Meaningness @Timber_22 and
I’m not saying that’s true of Zen at all; it’s definitely Mahayana according to some sensible, mainstream uses of the word.
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