interesting. Chagmé Rinpoche taught me in a system that doesn't include sems de or klong de.
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Semde and longde were almost entirely displaced by menngakde (for interesting historical reasons partly explained in David Germano’s Funerary Transformation paper). They persisted only in a handful of minor lineages.
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Replying to @Meaningness @chagmed and
Huh, so that seems like it might mean that the dzogchen line of the diagram above would only be accurate for... Aro? Nyingma? Wondering what the others would look like...
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Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness and
It's broadly speaking Nyingma. One of the wonderful things about Aro (I say this as a friend of that lineage, not a member or apprentice - but definitely who has learned from several Aro people) is that they communicate very clearly around principle, function...
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Replying to @Timber_22 @Malcolm_Ocean and
...and the organization of the teachings themselves. As far as I can tell, this is a speciality of the house from Ngakpa Chögyam and Khandro Déchen: clarity of how this all fits together. That is a helpful approach for Westerners, and particularly very rationalist oriented folk
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Replying to @Timber_22 @Malcolm_Ocean and
...and, underneath that admirable clarity and precision of description, other than the Aro terma, all of this is straight Nyingma.
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Replying to @Timber_22 @Malcolm_Ocean and
When one looks at many classic dzogchen texts (e.g. from Longchenpa) the teachings in Aro (insofar as I can see from what's publicly available to non-apprentices) hew very close to the Nyingma Dzogchen tradition. (Again, I can't speak to the terma because I'm not in Aro)
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Replying to @Timber_22 @Malcolm_Ocean and
But that above diagram could easily be construed as a Nyingma diagram about Dzokchen. It has a heavy Aro slant because Aro pioneered the dzogchen ngöndro as a vehicle to get students to the base of dzogchen practice-study in a novel yet comprehensive manner.
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Replying to @Timber_22 @Meaningness and
Yeah totally, we're well aware that it's a map coming from the Aro perspective, mostly as mediated through
@Meaningness &@_awbery_, though we were also reading Dzogchen Teachings by Chögyal Namkhai Norbu the other day and it jives with much of this. but still very dzogchen view1 reply 0 retweets 3 likes -
Replying to @Malcolm_Ocean @Meaningness and
Namkhai Norbu was a very special man. A brilliant, genius and revolutionary dzogchen teacher.
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