My experience here (among Western vipassana teachers) is that it's very (maybe too) dependent on language and subtleties of instruction. It seems at least possible to teach Vipassana in a way that doesn't encourage catatonia, if "empty" is not made synonymous with "meaningless."
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Replying to @JakeOrthwein @reasonisfun and
Yes that’s been the pattern for decades. The problem is that the underlying method points in the wrong direction. Modifications and sugar coating apparently make it work ok for many (most?) people, but there are enough whom it fucks up to take the warnings seriously.
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Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
Is the fatal flaw in your view that Vipassana is purely deconstructive? That it's intended to culminate in cessation? To hear Shinzen describe it here (https://deconstructingyourself.com/dy-004-feather-light-paper-thin-guest-shinzen-young.html …), emptiness can be seen as micro-cessation (though now I'm well out of my depth!).
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Replying to @JakeOrthwein @reasonisfun and
Yes, exactly that. This is entirely explicit. Shinzen mixes in Shingon, which is tantric, so he can point the way beyond the deconstruction. Most vipassana/mindfulness teachers don’t even understand THAT it’s deconstructive, much less how you put things back together afterwards.
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Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
Ok so when Heidegger (via Vervaeke) talks about the simultaneous shining and withdrawal of things, is this roughly = micro-cessations? And Vipassana shows how framing "conceals" but not how "disclosure" and "concealment" interafford each other?https://youtu.be/qrkqopjEceU?t=1719 …
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Replying to @JakeOrthwein @reasonisfun and
I want to say yes, and I think this is importantly right at some level! OTOH, it’s difficult and perhaps misleading to bring Heidegger and Buddhism into registration with each other because they are so different.
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Replying to @Meaningness @JakeOrthwein and
On the third hand, Heidegger was extensively in dialog with the Kyoto School of modernist Zen thought, and significantly influenced by them (to quite what extent remains controversial). Zen is one of few Buddhist approaches that includes reconstruction:https://vividness.live/2013/12/12/emptiness-zen-tantra-dzogchen/ …
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Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
Very cool. Thanks for continuing to fill in these gaps!
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Replying to @JakeOrthwein @reasonisfun and
Oh, in case Vervaeke didn’t mention this, Nishitani, who he cites as his most important Buddhist influence I think, studied with Heidegger in Germany for two years, and later became the head of the Kyoto School https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_School …
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Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
Jake Orthwein Retweeted Jake Orthwein
Yes, Vervaeke does mention him and this made it into my
@nosilverv spamming. Nishitani has been added to my ever-growing Meaning(ness)(crisis) reading list!https://twitter.com/JakeOrthwein/status/1238523918253559809?s=20 …Jake Orthwein added,
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Ah, right, I remember now!
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