(Sorry to hear that!) Are there names for the different kinds of meditation which separate out this dissociated kind? Or is it more about how a teacher leads it? Any recommendations for better/worse kinds of meditation?
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Replying to @reasonisfun @univ_explainer
I’ve been ranting about this for years. The goal of mainstream Buddhism (“Sutrayana”) is not easily distinguishable from deep depression. The methods were designed to induce that state. This is not what most contemporary people want. I think this has been something of a disaster
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Several of my relevant posts are linked in this section (“Tantra and Sutra”):https://vividness.live/2019/04/24/reinventing-buddhist-tantra-annotated-table-of-contents/#Sutrayana …
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My spouse
@_awbery_ has written about this with more specific reference to meditation methods, e.g. in these posts: https://vajrayananow.com/2019/04/10/not-all-buddhism-is-about-liberation-from-suffering/ … https://vajrayananow.com/2019/04/06/the-limited%E2%80%8B-language-of-the-no-self/ … https://vajrayananow.com/2019/04/19/the-structure-of-buddhism/ …https://vajrayananow.com/2019/04/15/living-contradictions/ …3 replies 0 retweets 18 likes -
Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
The meditation methods that are mainly taught now derive from one invented a hundred years ago by Mahasi Sayadaw, who was an extreme ascetic. The fact that he designed it to induce something close to catatonic apathy has been systematically obscured.https://vividness.live/2011/07/07/theravada-reinvents-meditation/ …
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Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
My experience here (among Western vipassana teachers) is that it's very (maybe too) dependent on language and subtleties of instruction. It seems at least possible to teach Vipassana in a way that doesn't encourage catatonia, if "empty" is not made synonymous with "meaningless."
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Replying to @JakeOrthwein @reasonisfun and
Yes that’s been the pattern for decades. The problem is that the underlying method points in the wrong direction. Modifications and sugar coating apparently make it work ok for many (most?) people, but there are enough whom it fucks up to take the warnings seriously.
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Replying to @Meaningness @reasonisfun and
Is the fatal flaw in your view that Vipassana is purely deconstructive? That it's intended to culminate in cessation? To hear Shinzen describe it here (https://deconstructingyourself.com/dy-004-feather-light-paper-thin-guest-shinzen-young.html …), emptiness can be seen as micro-cessation (though now I'm well out of my depth!).
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Replying to @JakeOrthwein @reasonisfun and
Yes, exactly that. This is entirely explicit. Shinzen mixes in Shingon, which is tantric, so he can point the way beyond the deconstruction. Most vipassana/mindfulness teachers don’t even understand THAT it’s deconstructive, much less how you put things back together afterwards.
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Replying to @Meaningness @JakeOrthwein and
FWIW, a lot of the language Shinzen uses to describe what’s out the other side of emptiness tends to be from Zen rather than Shingon, which is less explicit but def still there.
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David Chapman Retweeted David Chapman
yes… cf this tweet and the post it links:https://twitter.com/Meaningness/status/1242588873395298304 …
David Chapman added,
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